Cantabile 1.2 - need some advice

[bradr]

On rewire, maybe. I've quickly looked into the licensing side of it and seems reasonable, though not sure if Propellor Head license to non-companies. I figured I'd wait till the time comes before asking.

If you just want to connect midi, virtual midi cable is probably the way to go.

Brad

[sinkmusic]

Hi Bradr.
I have never tried Cantabile, so maybe that i'm a little "out" here, but from reading the availbale and planned features, Cantabile looks like an interesting thing, may it be free or cheap.

I may have several questions and suggestions :

- supporting for midi plugins and filters is already very nice ;

- can we already chain plugins ?

- One suggestion : can we already record both in the same time audio and midi flow ? THe use of it is that if you record a spontaneous unpredicted very good melody, you woudl have the audio file ready to be inserted in your favourite sequencer, but if it also needs some editing, you could just do it. And another use of that feature is that the recorded audio stream coudl be used like an "audio notepad" for midi clips : next to the midi file, you have the wav file that can tell you to which vsti adn preset the midi file is meant to be opened, at which tempo, adn how it sounds like...I know this solution needs a big HD, but in some cases it can be handy.

- what is missing to minihost or other "quick plugin loader" (i use Ext at the moment for loading quickly a plugin and playing with it) is the ability to record the output AND being able to make basic editing to it : cut, trim, add markers (to vizualise the best parts, the parts to cut/edit, etc)...

- If Cantabile is goind deeper in audio editing features (more than just recording audio stream), i know that there are 2 features i take in to consideration : 1-applying multiple efx at once (=plugin chaining) with realtime preview, and 2-batch processing (you load for example 30 samples in the audio editor, and tell to "normalize them all", or "reverse/resample them all" etc.).

- midi clips batch processing : This also makes me think, as Cantabile is audio AND midi, that such a feature applied to midi files could be veeeerrrrrry handy : you load a bunch of midi clips, and tell to "quantize them all at 1/16", or "filter CC74 messages in all these clips", etc. At the moment, i don't know any hosts able to do this, adn i haven't got any idea if it is easy to implement, but in that price range, this could make it a quite unique and killer feature to distinguish Cantabile from others

Well, i hope that some ideas can be helpfull, and i'm going to dl v1,1 to give Cantabile a try !

[edit] oops ! I haven't read the first post (august), one month-old. I guess my post was a bit out, then....

[grymmjack]

i agree, that basic editing is a desired feature. i'd like a simple workaround in the interim to do "iterative" composition...

basically:

1. record the audio output
2. stop recording
3. click 'load last recording' button icon into new audio playback component
4. toggle 'mix' mode for recording of audio output by clicking the icon or checkbox
5. record again while playing over top
6. repeat

it's great as it is now, but the sketchpad functionality of cantabile is so wonderful, it'd really be great to have this kind of feature.

basic editing of the stuff too would be cool.

i know i can insert a copy of tapeit or edison as the last plug on a chain and achieve this kind of functionality (iterative recording), but it's not as fun or easy as it could be with a built-in provided by cantabile.

the question then becomes where to draw the line? and only brad knows that answer. i think there is a unique position for where cantabile and minihost both sit at the moment. adding basic editing and quick iterative composition features to cantabile would really only make sense if it didn't go entirely deep like a regular old host.

someday i'd like to see cantabile vsti of course that's so much work.

anyway cantabile rules. thanks brad.

[bradr]

Hi,

- supporting for midi plugins and filters is already very nice ;

Thanks!

- can we already chain plugins ?

1.1=no
1.2 Lite = 2 racks of 2 plugins
1.2 Full = Unlimited racks of unlimited plugins.

- One suggestion : can we already record both in the same time audio and midi flow ? THe use of it is that if you record a spontaneous unpredicted very good melody, you woudl have the audio file ready to be inserted in your favourite sequencer, but if it also needs some editing, you could just do it. And another use of that feature is that the recorded audio stream coudl be used like an "audio notepad" for midi clips : next to the midi file, you have the wav file that can tell you to which vsti adn preset the midi file is meant to be opened, at which tempo, adn how it sounds like...I know this solution needs a big HD, but in some cases it can be handy.

Yes you can already record audio and midi simulataneously. Interesting idea though editing the midi file and the audio automatically updated. I'll keep this in mind when I'm designing the offline rendering for the version after 1.2 (probably). Offline render was planned for 1.2 but ran out of time.

- what is missing to minihost or other "quick plugin loader" (i use Ext at the moment for loading quickly a plugin and playing with it) is the ability to record the output AND being able to make basic editing to it : cut, trim, add markers (to vizualise the best parts, the parts to cut/edit, etc)...

I'm hoping version after 1.2 will introduce some basic midi / audio editing.

- If Cantabile is goind deeper in audio editing features (more than just recording audio stream), i know that there are 2 features i take in to consideration : 1-applying multiple efx at once (=plugin chaining) with realtime preview, and 2-batch processing (you load for example 30 samples in the audio editor, and tell to "normalize them all", or "reverse/resample them all" etc.).

I think (1) is within the realm of Cantabile (offline render of audio file->audio file). (2) Batch processing - maybe. I've had a few requests for MIDI file playlist, which is the same area I guess.

- midi clips batch processing : This also makes me think, as Cantabile is audio AND midi, that such a feature applied to midi files could be veeeerrrrrry handy : you load a bunch of midi clips, and tell to "quantize them all at 1/16", or "filter CC74 messages in all these clips", etc. At the moment, i don't know any hosts able to do this, adn i haven't got any idea if it is easy to implement, but in that price range, this could make it a quite unique and killer feature to distinguish Cantabile from others Wink

Yep interesting stuff, not sure when I'll get to this sort of stuff but will keep it in mind.

Well, i hope that some ideas can be helpfull, and i'm going to dl v1,1 to give Cantabile a try

Thanks so much, I appreciate all feedback, so if you think of anything else, either raise it here or PM, email me...

Brad

[bradr]

Hi grymm,

i agree, that basic editing is a desired feature. i'd like a simple workaround in the interim to do "iterative" composition...

This is something I've been thinking about for both audio and midi. I think it fits the time frame of the version after 1.2

the question then becomes where to draw the line? and only brad knows that answer. i think there is a unique position for where cantabile and minihost both sit at the moment. adding basic editing and quick iterative composition features to cantabile would really only make sense if it didn't go entirely deep like a regular old host.

Indeed, where to draw the line (and who says I know the answer ). I'm also a little worried that Cantabile is quickly outgrowing its user interface. Compare these:

http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/Cantabile.png
http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/Cantabile11.png
http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/Cantabile12.png

How to keep it really simple yet flexible for the kinds of things being suggested will be the challenge for post 1.2.

someday i'd like to see cantabile vsti of course that's so much work.

Well I've already done alot of ground work for this and the audio engine is practically ready for it. Getting Cantabile's UI into a plugin is going to be the hard part I think.

anyway cantabile rules. thanks brad.

Well it might have until I pulled it all apart this afternoon. Suppose I better go put it back together...

Brad

[grymmjack]

hahaha those screenshot successions are hillarious. It's perfectly indicative of exactly your point.

Hrm.

[dougsyo]

Just a heads-up, Cantabile 1.1 does not play well with Firebird 1.2 (it did with Firebird 1.1). See http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 03#2149434 for more information.

Doug

[bradr]

Thanks, reply posted on other thread.

Also for anyone interested, a beta of Cantabile Lite now available here:

http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/beta12.htm

Brad

[dougsyo]

Thanks, reply posted on other thread.

Also for anyone interested, a beta of Cantabile Lite now available here:

http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/beta12.htm

Thanks Brad, just tested real quick (I'm on lunch break at work) with Firebird 1.2, Discovery, ZeroVector and Dimension Pro and it seems to work OK.

Doug

[eduardo_b]

...Indeed, where to draw the line (and who says I know the answer ). I'm also a little worried that Cantabile is quickly outgrowing its user interface...

I think this is where it becomes critical to decide how complicated both the software and its interface should be before the original goals of simplicity and functionality are lost. The suggestions will be innovative but endless, and soon you end up with a multi-page gui and complexity.

Not sure a three-month product cycle is necessary. I'm increasingly irritated at constant stream of releases by developers to keep track of, and have taken to skipping some of these.

Finally, keep price point low and you will keep it affordable. I'm amazed at the prices for new and updated software products, as if everyone has unlimited amounts of discretionary funds just waiting to be spent. Keep the value to cost ratio high.

[bradr]

Hi,

Firstly, for anyone interested there's a demo build of Cantabile 1.2 Full available now from

http://www.toptensoftware.com/cantabile/beta12.htm .
or direct download
http://www.toptensoftware.com/downloads ... oSetup.exe

Its a demo so its limited by no reload of session + only runs for an hour at a time.

Secondly, thanks for your comments.

I think this is where it becomes critical to decide how complicated both the software and its interface should be before the original goals of simplicity and functionality are lost. The suggestions will be innovative but endless, and soon you end up with a multi-page gui and complexity.

Totally agree and hence my comment of concern. Its also the reason more of the full version's features aren't in the Lite version.

Not sure a three-month product cycle is necessary. I'm increasingly irritated at constant stream of releases by developers to keep track of, and have taken to skipping some of these.

The reason for the self imposed three month cycle (which I've missed btw, but not by much) is simply this: I've worked in the software development industry for a long time and its become quite evident to me that the longer a project goes the more likely it is doomed to failure. Three months seems the ideal as it allows for significant changes, but is also a foreseeable goal. Timelines beyond this seem "ages away" and effort is less focused. Of course large projects can be broken into smaller 3 month sub projects, but for Cantabile I don't think that's necessary. Well that my (possibly flawed) reasoning anyway...

Finally, keep price point low and you will keep it affordable. I'm amazed at the prices for new and updated software products, as if everyone has unlimited amounts of discretionary funds just waiting to be spent. Keep the value to cost ratio high.

I think at US$25, Cantabile is pretty good value (but I would wouldn't I )

Thanks again

Brad

[mahtazz]

Hi Brad,

US$25, it's a deal, for this amazing program.

[grymmjack]

is it on sale yet? i want to be the first customer.

[bradr]

Not yet, soon.
Brad

[satchnut]

i want to be the first customer.

Sorry, buddy. I've set the page to refresh every 5 minutes to ensure that doesn't happen!