KVR Audio

spacefox · Post by **spacefox** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:50 pm

Pantsdown666 wrote:
Jafo wrote: The SFZ format is orders of magnitude more usable than SF2, and its only drawback is the associated fleet of files.
... and I'll just add lack of cross-platform compatibility

Actually sfz format can be read by Dimension Pro and Rapture which are both available as Audio Units.
Not free though.

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:25 pm

No contradictoin, Willie -- yes, a tube amp sim can add bark. It's just not the only source. And Scarbee definitely has some nice bark in it, that is enhanced by a tube amp sim.

I just wanted to correct the impression that the bark comes ONLY from the postprocessors. When I play, it all comes from the instrument, simply due to keeping the setup from getting too complicated (I'm talking about my real Rhodes here). It would have sounded even better with the ideal tube preamp in front. (Well, for small gigs for a time I used to use a Kustom 250 bass amp, all tranny -- virtually nothing in the box -- and it worked great, but it would have sounded a lot better with a decent amp!)

What I liked about my setup is I could go from very clear bell-like tone to very hot barking tone without adjusting anything other than my playing technique and the volume knob on the Rhodes.

annode · Post by **annode** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:58 pm

Interesting thread.
Heard Mr.Rhodes speak at a piano technicians guild convention once yrs ago and told the story of how he came to build the Rhodes piano.

Tp make it real short...he was on a ship in the navy...think as a band player...forget...on a ship the humidity would kill a piano,so he built one that would handle the water and humidity.

Anyway,for me,and not mentioned so far in this thread,"lazysnake"modeled piano using the "boxy" preset...has loads of personality and I always choose it over mr.ray and sampled pianos I have.
http://www.bostreammail.net/ers/lazysnake.html

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:05 pm

annode wrote:Interesting thread.
Heard Mr.Rhodes speak at a piano technicians guild convention once yrs ago and told the story of how he came to build the Rhodes piano.

would that have been at Cleveland, Ohio 1978?

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:05 pm

Good ol' Harold, bless his soul!

annode · Post by **annode** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:12 pm

bluedad wrote:
annode wrote:Interesting thread.
Heard Mr.Rhodes speak at a piano technicians guild convention once yrs ago and told the story of how he came to build the Rhodes piano.

would that have been at Cleveland, Ohio 1978?

Hey Dad...what's up?
It was right here in the city of brotherly love...jeez..that sounds too gay!!!
Here in Philly at the Ben Franklin hotel.Trying to think when...yeah...late '70's I think.

annode · Post by **annode** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:14 pm

To add;
He was giving a course in the instrument which offered a certificate...now where did I put that?

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:31 am

annode wrote: It was right here in the city of brotherly love...jeez..that sounds too gay!!!
Here in Philly at the Ben Franklin hotel.Trying to think when...yeah...late '70's I think.

I caught his class in Cleveland; it was either 78-79. Got a certificate too, but all that stuff has long gone!

Mango · Post by **Mango** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:51 am

I really prefer lazysnake over any of the others too, i feel it's an underated EP emu

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:48 pm

OK, I just spent some time playing the Lizard Lounge demo. It's a great instument, with lots of excellent sounds and effects. It reminds me a lot of MrRay73, especially the sound of the tines, but with considerably more flexibility in modifying the tone (and consequently a bit more complicated GUI).

There are a number of sounds that are pretty authentic sounding, and I especially like the "plain wurly".

The "classic" patches are idiotic: they should find someone with a clue about the songs to redo those patches, which are really terrible for the ones I recognized. I'm confident that LL can do a LOT better imitation of a DyNoMy Rhodes than the "Lady" patch, and the Steely Dan imitations are almost as bad. That's beside the point, though. Just bad marketing, frankly.

If LL had sounded this nice when I tried it years ago, I probably would have bought it. It serves the musical purposes I have in mind.

The bark is very good to my ears (admittedly, not what they once were!) The keyboard dynamics are lively (and adjustable). It's fun to play.

However, the HF tine tone, when emphasized using EQ, rings artificial. When you do the same thing to Scarbee, it sounds very realistic. Quite similar to my soundfont, which was sampled with EQ to pull this very sound out, and a part of the Rhodes sound that I crave. The HF tine tone of LL is musical, usable, and worthwhile, but it's not quite like the real thing or even samples of the real thing.

Still, it's a great instrument, fun to play, and very versatile.

I don't remember hearing of lazysnake before this; I'll have to give it a try.

Cheers
Jeff

learjeff · Post by **learjeff** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:14 pm

OK, that didn't take long. Lazy Snake is not in the same league as the other contenders mentioned here, for authenticity or realism (i.e., making one feel like one is playing a real electromechanical instrument, even if it's not exactly a Rhodes or Wurlitzer).

Some cool sounds, yes. MrRay73 is dramatically more authentic sounding -- close enough that someone posted an example on the forum for Keyboard Mag, and fooled several Rhodes enthusiasts into thinking it was either a real Rhodes or else Scarbee. (But not the author, ZioKiller, who recognized his baby at once.) The clip even used a very simple setting, where it's easier to distinguish between the real thing and a clone.

EasySnake wouldn't fool anyone under any conditions except perhaps heavily affected (e.g., fuzzed out beyond recognition). That doesn't mean it's not a neat little VSTi and useful musically, because I'm sure it is.

Specifically, the tine HF sound (what LS calls "Fork Harmonics") is very artificial and sounds more like a DX-7 than a real instrument of any kind.

The "Fork Fundamental" is time-invariant other than for volume envelope -- quite unlike a real Rhodes or any of the good sims. True to the description, it does sound a lot like a sine wave

I can't get any bark from tines at all, though I can get something a little bit like it from the build-in amp sim. Not enough like it, though.

Cheers,
Jeff

DiLate · Post by **DiLate** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:57 pm

Not too much said about NI Elektrik Piano other than a brief mention here and there.. any comments on its authenticity? [regarding rhodes and/or wurlitzer emulation]

taijiguy · Post by **taijiguy** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:01 am

DiLate wrote:Not too much said about NI Elektrik Piano other than a brief mention here and there.. any comments on its authenticity? [regarding rhodes and/or wurlitzer emulation]

After spending a couple of months going back and forth trying demos of most of those mentioned here, I went with NI Elektrik Piano. I think it has the best sound Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Clavinet. Not to say that some of the others weren't really close. I like Lounge Lizard a lot and MrRay73 is also very nice. But to me, NI has the most authentic sounds and feel. Too bad it's NI though.

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:18 am

>>would that have been at Cleveland, Ohio 1978?

I think I was in Cleveland that year for a Joe Walsh concert. :->

bernhardtjeff · Post by **bernhardtjeff** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:30 am

hey, um, learjeff, isn't your address actually learjeff.net and not learjeff.com? everyone seems to be overlooking this.

The most authentic Rhodes?