Re: FYI - Cubase 4 No Longer Supports DirectX Plugins

[Alex Westner]

First, why should Steinberg develop two different apps, one to run on 32bit and other to run 64 bit?

They don't have to, but if they want to take advantage of the extra RAM available to 64-bit apps, and the faster chip architecture, they'll have to make a native 64-bit app.

Second, what's in the way of devs not to release VST3 versions of their DX plugs, as long or before they compile 64x DX version?

Steinberg has not yet released the VST3 SDK to developers. I've heard they're targeting the end of the year.

In the meantime, both DX and VST 2.4 allows support for native 64-bit plug-ins.

[diverdee]

Thanks for the information on all this Alex.
It's good getting this from a knowledgeable industry insider.

[stag]

Thank you, Alex, as well.
I thougth my question where rethorycal, In the sense that 64bit is mandatory... also while compiling 64bit DX versions would be a great to release 64 bit VST as well... i think the ball is clearly on the plug developers field now.
Thanks for the corrections too.

Whiterabbit, Cubase.net isn't a support forum, legitimate registered Cubase users have dedicated support at Steinberg.net uppon registration, also retaillers are they forefront regarding support, i can testify for that since at the begining i need help to set myself on the way, so i phoned the guy who sold me cubase, gave him my serial number: done.

Bye.

[ericj23]

basically this really means that all users are facing the same "DX cut", steinberg not being the only one but just the first one to do it.

Nope. There's still a major difference between 'will not support DX from now on' and 'cannot support 32-bit DX plugins on a 64-bit OS, can support 32-bit DX plugins under a 32-bit OS, and can support DX plugins which have been recompiled as 64-bit DX plugins under a 64-bit OS'

actually i am not convinced there is - as i have said more than once in the thread name one dx company that will make a 64 bit dx plug that wont make a vst version - there isn't one

so yes steinberg can't support those 64 bit dx plug-ins - but why would anyone want them to?

OK cubase 4 in a 32 bit os cannot support dx without a wrapper - a number of which that are free do exist - so the functionality is essentially the same as sonar (except people have to deal with a wrappaer which is admittedly very annoying in cubase as it measn you cant do alot of the audio editin and apply fx kind of things with presets that you can normally)

steinberg plan to be vista ready about the time of the next big point upgrade of cubase - i would guess at the same time as nuendo 4 - currently aimed at early next year - so it has been decided that cubase 4 will be 64 bit along with vista

so for me they are just making a sensible choice about not providing support for a dead technology - just to repeat name me a single manufacturer of a 64 bit dx plug that won't have a vst version

PS thanks for coming in alex, will cakewalk ever list the current bugs in their programs and tell users how to avoid them ? - one of the highlights of steinberg support for me

[headquest]

actually i am not convinced there is - as i have said more than once in the thread name one dx company that will make a 64 bit dx plug that wont make a vst version - there isn't one

Well Alex confirmed that the SONAR plugs are all done as 64-bit versions, by which I assume he may mean the rgc:audio stuff??

If Cakewalk decided to play Steinberg at their own game, they could withdraw the Sonitus VST effects plugs they sell and only stick to the DX versions, perhaps the same with the rgc:audio synths, etc.

The fact that they don't play the same game as Steinberg tells me that:

1) They are more interested in shaping their software to their users needs, which are diverse.

2) They believe in supporting multiple formats and being as compatible as possible with everyone else (rather than trying to bully all the other developers)

Perhaps Steinberg/Yamaha want to follow the Digidesign/RTAS business model of taking control and shutting out everyone else . Cakewalk are certainly trying, it would seem, to be as open as possible, which is a contrast. Surely though the popularity of VST (at least up until 2.3) is that it was open, and had an approachable SDK. Since 2.4 that already seems to be changing and the swift move to 3.0 might just make VST less popular...

Certainly interesting times...

steinberg plan to be vista ready about the time of the next big point upgrade of cubase - i would guess at the same time as nuendo 4 - currently aimed at early next year - so it has been decided that cubase 4 will be 64 bit along with vista

Well I guess we'll see. They have been fairly slow in providing an intel mac version. Whatever they are planning, Vista is due out within the winter quarter, and at present development rate early Viasta adopters may need to wait for a version of Cubase. On the other hand, maybe it will port very easily.

[headquest]

... will cakewalk ever list the current bugs in their programs and tell users how to avoid them ? - one of the highlights of steinberg support for me

A highlight compared to...

...refusing to replace damaged dongles?...
...censoring critical posts on their forum?...
...keeping users guessing for an age about the intel mac version?...
...two year wait for Cubase 4 without any word from them... etc...

Well yes, I guess I can see your point.

But they only tell you about all those bugs AFTER you've paid for the product, right?

[mojkarma]

... will cakewalk ever list the current bugs in their programs and tell users how to avoid them ? - one of the highlights of steinberg support for me

A highlight compared to...

...refusing to replace damaged dongles?...
...censoring critical posts on their forum?...
...keeping users guessing for an age about the intel mac version?...
...two year wait for Cubase 4 without any word from them... etc...

Well yes, I guess I can see your point.

But they only tell you about all those bugs AFTER you've paid for the product, right?

What a childish post!

"...refusing to replace damaged dongles?..."
- you cannot make general statements about this. It is handled on a per user basis.

"...censoring critical posts on their forum?..."
- thats b..shit! There are a lot of critical posts right now on their forum. They lock posts if the discussion turns into bashing in a inproper way.

"...keeping users guessing for an age about the intel mac version?..."
- and where is the intel mac version for sonar? Steinberg said clearly that intel mac versions will come out with the release of cubase4. BTW, NI still doesn't have all their software for intelmacs. Not to mention a lot of other companies which are extremely popular on macs (Take Adobe for example).

"...two year wait for Cubase 4 without any word from them... etc..."
- what should they say. BTW, they announced cubase 4 to be released in the 4 quartal of the year. What do you expect? A love letter every two months from them? Ask cakewalk, when will they release Sonar7 with finally half of the features cubase has on the midi side.

"But they only tell you about all those bugs AFTER you've paid for the product, right?"

- what kind of logic is this. Bugs are getting aknowledged as the number of users rise who can find them. How can they tell you, before they find them. If you didn't buy cubase at this time, you will not what bugs are in there. Where is the difference to Sonar in this aspect?

BTW, did cakewalk tell you that the new lasso behavior doesn't apply on midi notes/events in the pianoroll? Did they tell you that their audiometronome is still producing an audiogap if turned off/on, while the song is playing? Even after three versions (sonar4, 5 and now 6), they are not able to do this right.

[stag]

... will cakewalk ever list the current bugs in their programs and tell users how to avoid them ? - one of the highlights of steinberg support for me

A highlight compared to...

...refusing to replace damaged dongles?...
...censoring critical posts on their forum?...
...keeping users guessing for an age about the intel mac version?...
...two year wait for Cubase 4 without any word from them... etc...

Well yes, I guess I can see your point.

But they only tell you about all those bugs AFTER you've paid for the product, right?

No offence this a Cubase thread which topic verses a Cubase issue.
However, user and developer of other brands have jump in. GREAT!! Most part have contributed with valuable opinions and info.
However a question regarding a specific host was posted and you thougth the best way to answer
was attacking Steinberg.

Let me tell you this: When i bougth Cubase first time the vendor told me, very clearly, i could lost my serial, could lost the install CD, however if i loose the dongle then my license was gone with it, however it could get some malfunction, burned or crashed as long as remained a bit that could edintify as a Steinberg dongle i'd be cool. I'd get a new one with a license on it, which BTW is fully transferable, just in case you get to sell me your Sonar license.

The rest of the things you wrote at a first glance could seem a simple lie, it isn't, you simply mistaken closing a post with deleting it.
A lot are closed mainly the posts done by people without its dongle number stored on its license, others because are redundant, others because Steinberg and their mods, like myself for instance, don't like plain insult and misinformation.

Its fun to see people from other hosts being more worried about CB than its actual users. Just be a little more truthful.

On behalf of Sonar i remember the first update of Sonar 5 adressed none less than 72 bugs, so i have no idea what is Eric talking about too. I Know they were 72 because they were posted here at KVR once it was released, plain transparent.

Bugs?! telling mac people that only C4 has UB support, you got to be joking.
2 years w\o releasing a major update?! Well that's why i like Steinberg... they don't play at work... no sir!! 2 years!!

Take care, mister.

[headquest]

What a childish post!

Yep, that's me rumbled then!

"...refusing to replace damaged dongles?..."
- you cannot make general statements about this. It is handled on a per user basis.

My awareness is of schools in the UK who have had big problems with this and lost a load of their music budgets due to crass customer relations from Steinberg/Arbiter.

"...censoring critical posts on their forum?..."
- thats b..shit! There are a lot of critical posts right now on their forum. They lock posts if the discussion turns into bashing in a inproper way.

I'm thinking there of the whole debacle over whether the dongle sucks up some CPU - whole threads were being pulled down as quickly as people could start them - ... simply disappearing! Now that really was childish!

"...keeping users guessing for an age about the intel mac version?..."
- and where is the intel mac version for sonar? Steinberg said clearly that intel mac versions will come out with the release of cubase4. BTW, NI still doesn't have all their software for intelmacs. Not to mention a lot of other companies which are extremely popular on macs (Take Adobe for example).

That may be a fair point (I don't know) but my main host is Ableton Live. They had intel mac versions out within a matter of weeks, and were very clear in announcing the timescale in advance.

"...two year wait for Cubase 4 without any word from them... etc..."
- what should they say. BTW, they announced cubase 4 to be released in the 4 quartal of the year. What do you expect? A love letter every two months from them? Ask cakewalk, when will they release Sonar7 with finally half of the features cubase has on the midi side.

I imagaine that Sonar 7 will come out around next October, but I haven't bought Sonar 6 yet...! I guess that if Cakewalk break with their current development cycle they will explain why because they have good ongoing relationship with their customers, as Alex's comment in this thread well demonstrate.

My other knowledge is of course with Ableton, who announced in January this year that Live 6 would come out in Q3, which of course it did. They even flagged up some of the stuff they were working on, and have already highlighted some of the stuff going into Live 7 next year. It is certainly useful for users to know where they are headed.

"But they only tell you about all those bugs AFTER you've paid for the product, right?"

- what kind of logic is this. Bugs are getting aknowledged as the number of users rise who can find them. How can they tell you, before they find them. If you didn't buy cubase at this time, you will not what bugs are in there. Where is the difference to Sonar in this aspect?

What is needed imho is:
1) Public beta testing (as done by Ableton, Propellerhead, etc)
2) Open reporting of issues prior to purchase
3) Bug forum with public access that people can read before purchase
4) A proper demo version so that users can test it on their equipment first.

Steinberg simply fail.

[stag]

Headquest:
Just to state that Steinberg also develops DXi plugs, and surely will do it as long as DXi hosts are around, Cubase is now VST alone, the format Sonar have to endure 6 versions to get rigth, so you grab your guitar and sing me tunes about caring with the customers.

Steinberg fails... in your opinion!
Two words: f**k off.

[bduffy]

...and that's the spirit of détante we're trying to encourage around here.

[fandango]

[I'd get a new one with a license on it, which BTW is fully transferable, just in case you get to sell me your Sonar license.

Who'd want to sell their copy of Sonar?

just joshin' with ya...

[headquest]

Headquest:
Just to state that Steinberg also develops DXi plugs, and surely will do it as long as DXi hosts are around.

So DX isn't "dead" after all?

Steinberg fails... in your opinion!

Steinberg fails according to the criteria I listed. I'm not saying they are perfect criteria, or that other developers do them *all* (Cakewalk for example I know don't do the public beta testing).

But Steinberg don't seem to care about any of the four I listed.

Two words: f**k off.

Is the rational debate getting too much for you, then?

[stag]

rational?! are you talking about yourself?

[Alex Westner]

Wow, y'all are sensitive folks, huh?

Just one more clarification from me - as another poster suggested, we're perfectly comfortable talking about bugs and issues found in our software.

• The Readme file included with SONAR 6 does list known issues we've encountered but weren't/aren't able to address.
• When we release updates, we always list all the bugs we addressed.
• Even though we don't offer technical support on our public forums, we constantly engage our customers about potential bugs in our software.