Customers are always wrong, eh?AdmiralQuality wrote:but you can always upgrade!
GUIfight '06 edition (Poly-Ana vs the naysayers)
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AdmiralQuality AdmiralQuality https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83902
- Banned
- 6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada
Where are these "customers" you people keep talking about? (Totc excepted!)fred-hal wrote:Customers are always wrong, eh?AdmiralQuality wrote:but you can always upgrade!
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 24 Apr, 2005
Well, I'm going to lay into the gui design and aesthetic choices here. I realize that poly-ana is basically a huge love letter to 70's style analogs, taken towards a sort of "uber analog" kind of thing. It's a pretty nice idea, and the thing's signal path and parameters are set up to put you straight into 70's prog land.
Unfortunately, the GUI design has some major flaws. It's not as bad as Xhip (where you have to go through all sorts of page flipping and none of the related parameters are on the same page... grr), but it does make several big mistakes.
First of all is the sheer amount of identical looking dials. Everything is the same color, and has the same look to it, so it's nearly impossible to tell what a patch is doing at a glance. All those little dials? Put big, hard to miss white lines on them so you know exactly what they're set at. That pseudo 3d-stuff in the osc and env sections? Nix it and just give me a dial that shows what I set it at. Those switches? Better to replace them with some sort of text.
Second are those mod source and destination wheels. I don't even know what to say about them. They're increadibly hard to read, they make reading a patch almost impossible and they're ugly as sin. Just about anything with clearer text would work here.
The stuff in the bottom left corner is barely even readable. It would be better to just have it straight on. In fact, having the whole GUI in perspective makes little sense to me, since it looks like it actively obscures things from being readable.
I know this is a suggestion that'll get me kicked in the teeth, but maybe having an alternate GUI could be an option. Something that would look more like it's from the abelton school of design, with dropdown menus, sliders and a high-contrast, 2D design. People who wanted the 70's look could use that, and the ones who wanted the more modern gui would have theirs. I think the differences between Krakli's Cygnus and the Odo-Skinned version show what kind of idea I mean...
EDIT: FWIW, I consider Zebra 2 the current high water mark in UI design. Everything it presents is clear, concise and extremely readable. You can clearly see all settings at a glance, and the routing is brilliantly implemented, being easy to follow and simple to change.
Unfortunately, the GUI design has some major flaws. It's not as bad as Xhip (where you have to go through all sorts of page flipping and none of the related parameters are on the same page... grr), but it does make several big mistakes.
First of all is the sheer amount of identical looking dials. Everything is the same color, and has the same look to it, so it's nearly impossible to tell what a patch is doing at a glance. All those little dials? Put big, hard to miss white lines on them so you know exactly what they're set at. That pseudo 3d-stuff in the osc and env sections? Nix it and just give me a dial that shows what I set it at. Those switches? Better to replace them with some sort of text.
Second are those mod source and destination wheels. I don't even know what to say about them. They're increadibly hard to read, they make reading a patch almost impossible and they're ugly as sin. Just about anything with clearer text would work here.
The stuff in the bottom left corner is barely even readable. It would be better to just have it straight on. In fact, having the whole GUI in perspective makes little sense to me, since it looks like it actively obscures things from being readable.
I know this is a suggestion that'll get me kicked in the teeth, but maybe having an alternate GUI could be an option. Something that would look more like it's from the abelton school of design, with dropdown menus, sliders and a high-contrast, 2D design. People who wanted the 70's look could use that, and the ones who wanted the more modern gui would have theirs. I think the differences between Krakli's Cygnus and the Odo-Skinned version show what kind of idea I mean...
EDIT: FWIW, I consider Zebra 2 the current high water mark in UI design. Everything it presents is clear, concise and extremely readable. You can clearly see all settings at a glance, and the routing is brilliantly implemented, being easy to follow and simple to change.
Last edited by the_nihilist on Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AdmiralQuality AdmiralQuality https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83902
- Banned
- 6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada
Actually nihilist the alternate GUI suggestion is about the only way I could address the concerns of the folks in your camp. So no teeth kicking is necessary. 
I wouldn't rule it out at all, it's just not high on the list of priorities right now. Sound is.
Filling in the last few features is. And optimization is. After that's all done... anything's possible.
Thanks though. I AM listening.
I wouldn't rule it out at all, it's just not high on the list of priorities right now. Sound is.Filling in the last few features is. And optimization is. After that's all done... anything's possible.
Thanks though. I AM listening.
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- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
I'm just going to say that I think it's a GUI that can really grow on you. I've always liked the design, but once I actually used it, I was a little concerned about legibility; but I've found that I get used to it and, on the brighter side, it may encourage you to just fiddle around and explore.
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 24 Apr, 2005
Also, you should really not take screenshots with your registration info in them..jon wrote:original
edited (from the screengrab)
I suggest you load the pngs on browser tabs and compare them side by side.
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 24 Apr, 2005
Ah, saw the serial and misinterpereted.fred-hal wrote:It's not registered.. Don't you see the 'enter the key' area?
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Don't worry, anybody can get a serial number. Just download the demo. No reg info there.
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
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- KVRAF
- 3404 posts since 15 Sep, 2002
I haven't said anything about the GUI yet, but this seems to be the place.
1. I don't like it.
2. I don't think he should work on it right now--he should fix bugs and address any sound issues. Number one priority is to keep him in business so it can eventually be everything his customers want it to be.
1. I don't like it.
2. I don't think he should work on it right now--he should fix bugs and address any sound issues. Number one priority is to keep him in business so it can eventually be everything his customers want it to be.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I definitely agree there, the extra angle obscures nearly everything going on in that bottom left area. I had no idea the PB Range knob said PB Range until I clicked on it and looked up at the top where the parameter names show up.the_nihilist wrote:The stuff in the bottom left corner is barely even readable.
Actually one solution to a lot of the complications that arise from the GUI would be to have a little floating label, like a tool tip, that contained the param name and current value, instead of having that info up at the top of the screen. Would definitely solve the need to read those mod knob labels.
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- KVRian
- 753 posts since 22 Aug, 2002 from on the inside looking out
After a few days of use, I'm pretty much in with the gui for pretty much the reasons shamann so eloquently describes. I like idiosyncratic and it seems a nice fit for polyanna's powerful sound.
If I was going to complain it would also be about your approach to the modulation controls. They're just too large for their function: they're the kind of things you set in a patch and then, generally, forget about. Thus, being able to see all the options is irrelevant anyway: it's simply not very useful to be able to change mod routing while playing. Mod depth, otoh, is very much the kind of thing that is useful to change while playing. And yet these are the smallest knobs of all and it's overly fiddly to find the right mod depth.
So, if I could make a suggestion: a small knob to change the mod source, a little window that shows the current mod source, and a much larger pot (perhaps even based on the current mod source wheels, but a little smaller and with no text, just a large, easy to see indicator line/mark on it) for mod depth. That way the rest of your gui would basically be unaffected and yet you could see mod source and mod depth at glance for every control.
As far as the size is concerned, I don't suppose it would be possible to split the gui in controls and keyboard section, would it? The user could then switch either or both on as needs require...
If I was going to complain it would also be about your approach to the modulation controls. They're just too large for their function: they're the kind of things you set in a patch and then, generally, forget about. Thus, being able to see all the options is irrelevant anyway: it's simply not very useful to be able to change mod routing while playing. Mod depth, otoh, is very much the kind of thing that is useful to change while playing. And yet these are the smallest knobs of all and it's overly fiddly to find the right mod depth.
So, if I could make a suggestion: a small knob to change the mod source, a little window that shows the current mod source, and a much larger pot (perhaps even based on the current mod source wheels, but a little smaller and with no text, just a large, easy to see indicator line/mark on it) for mod depth. That way the rest of your gui would basically be unaffected and yet you could see mod source and mod depth at glance for every control.
As far as the size is concerned, I don't suppose it would be possible to split the gui in controls and keyboard section, would it? The user could then switch either or both on as needs require...
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AdmiralQuality AdmiralQuality https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83902
- Banned
- 6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada
I could see having the window resize so the keyboard portion (and left hand panel controls) get chopped off. I'll look into this eventually.suthnear wrote: As far as the size is concerned, I don't suppose it would be possible to split the gui in controls and keyboard section, would it? The user could then switch either or both on as needs require...
In the short term, you can always just push that stuff off the bottom of your screen or host window.
I did try to keep the keyboard smaller than most VSTis as I feel they take up a lot of space. It throws off the scale a bit (imagine trying to fit a real-life Poly-Ana into the trunk of your car!) but I wasn't tied down by trying to copy the look of any particular classic, so went with the trade-off there.Cheers.