Kjaerhus Gold Series, Overlap?

[jmbriley]

I was looking at demoing the Gold Series and it seems to be alot of overlap regarding the compressors. Which one(s) is used most on vocals, bass and drums. What are the differences in the compressors? Thanks.

[softegg]

GCO is the flagship compressor, but for the moment it lacks sidechain. GPU is a lot less flexible but cheaper and has sidechain. GPU is the exact same compressor that is inside GAC.

I have only GCO and use it on everything. It is flexible enough sound good on vox bass drums guitar, whatever else. If you only want a flexible and do not need sidechain that is the way to go. ...like always : try the demo.

[Kiwburger]

The issue of GCO being the "flagship", and the broken promise of sidechain is a long running joke. I would seriously suggest that you consider purchasing a better compressor, perhaps Voxengo Marquis or the PSP stuff if you don't need sidechain. With any VST investment, the long term support by the vendor is essential.

[kritikon]

Which one(s) is used most on vocals, bass and drums. What are the differences in the compressors?

Vocals...I don't presonally do vocals, but I'd imagine you'd probably want the extra little features and control of GCO1.
For bass and drums...either GUP or GAC. GUP is pretty well the same compressor as GCO1, but less features...less control for the control freak, which might be important, depending on how you view compressors. GUP has the sidechain, so can be useful for basslines...although to be honest, sidechaining is a bit of a hype thing for the past year. You don't actually need to sidechain basslines for alot of music. As ever, if your mix is good, and depending on the style required, a simple compressor is often plenty enough without one.

I haven't properly demoed GAC, but I can see it has more potential for things like drums because of the Eq and potential for spatial shenanigins.


Probably I'd say if you had to buy only one:

For a general jack-of-all-trades that can do something for everything, GAC is the one.

GUP for anything if you specifically need a sidechain - say voice-overs etc.

GCO1 if you just want a creme-de-la-creme quality wideband compressor with all the features for every day compression duties.


I bought GUP mainly because of the sidechain. I rarely use the sidechain however, so I almost wish I'd plumped for GCO1, just because I'm very much into compressor subtleties and character. I probably won't buy GAC...I can do de-essing and other fancy stuff with GUP because of the sidechain, so I can rig up fancy FX if I need them.

GUP is also a bit cheaper...it's more a comp that you might consider as adding to your palette alongside other comps. GCO is just that little bit extra (although IMO not that expensive...) so if funds are tight, I'd probably consider GCO1 as your main compressor that will work for almost everything if you can only have one.


GCO - facny quality comp
GUP - cut down feature list GCO + sidechain
GAC - for fancy FX (although it can be a mundane channel strip too)

That sums them up for me personally.

[jens]

The issue of GCO being the "flagship", and the broken promise of sidechain is a long running joke. I would seriously suggest that you consider purchasing a better compressor, perhaps Voxengo Marquis or the PSP stuff if you don't need sidechain. With any VST investment, the long term support by the vendor is essential.

exactly - this thread reminds me again that I have to edit my review for GCO-1 - I really can't recommend it anymore - will it ever get sidechain? Will it recieve other crucial updates which might be needed in the future? Even if Torben put out a new version with sidechain tomorrow the trust I once had in him would probably stay spoilt...

[M'Snah]

GCO - facny quality comp
GUP - cut down feature list GCO + sidechain
GAC - for fancy FX (although it can be a mundane channel strip too)

That sums them up for me personally.

AFAIK GUP was the compressor from GAC as a separate product.

[lfm]

I am also confused about this overlap on all types of plugins from the same vendor. It does not seem to be a development for a plugin you buy over the years to come, but they create another product instead. This has kept me off from buying both Kjaerhus and Voxengo stuff so far.

Application software like Sonar and other come in new versions all the time, and what you bought can be upgraded for a lesser cost. This is not the way with plugins unfortunately.

It's very bad policy to create new products instead, the way I see it. It makes me even a bit mad actually.

If going for a bundle Voxengo seems like a good choice, for me anyway. Kjaerhus does not have a strong enough productline, even if I think the top-of-the-line compressor is there. A $120 product will only give you what you buy at that very moment. There are no updates with new features for years to come, to follow with maybe an extra $40 cost or so.

If to pay as much money for a product, you want it to develop. Samplers does, hosting recording software does etc, but hardly any plugins I've seen otherwise. You are expected just to buy and pay all over for a sideproduct instead.

If investing - you want development. That's how I spend my money. Just a tip to vendors from me.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

lfm, plug-ins is a different story to samplers and recording software. You probably do not understand this whole business - if not we, hardly anyone will be doing it with full-time devotion. It is not as profitable business as you may think (I think it's comparable to average engineering employment while you have to do everything yourself - even bookkeeping). It is also not very profitable because the general demand for extra plug-ins is low, and because plug-ins are smaller than samplers, and recording software - so, you can't release updates every year, and collect more money from the existing customer base. However, as for Voxengo, I have managed to release a lot of updates for free - even if sometimes such updates brought a considerable enhancement. But plug-ins have their limits of enhancement - they can't turn into monsters in a way recording software does.

In either case, whom you should critisize is Waves and probably other 'major' plug-in market players: they have a lot of overlapping products as well. But as I've noticed above, it is not possible to do it another way around with plug-ins: first of all, there are only like three kinds of plug-ins exist: EQ+room FX, dynamics+harmonic distortion, and analysis (plus a whole lot of combinations of these). So, it may look like two EQ plug-ins do the same, and are looking similar, but they are very different in their internals, and results they give. Beside that a compressor with less amount of functions costs less and looks more appealing to a customer than a feature-packed compressor that costs more. Compare Voxengo Crunchessor and Voxengo Polysquasher to Voxengo Marquis Compressor - they are all compressors, but they provide different functions and sound absolutely different to each other. The same applies to Voxengo GlissEQ, Voxengo CurveEQ and Voxengo HarmoniEQ: they all are equaliers, but have different functions and sound different as well. I do not think Voxengo has other overlapping products beside these two groups.

[nBeat]

A $120 product will only give you what you buy at that very moment. There are no updates with new features for years to come, ...

And how's that different from hardware ?

[Amberience]

Just buy the Buzzroom compressors and forget about Kjaerhus.

[lfm]

In either case, whom you should critisize is Waves and probably other 'major' plug-in market players: they have a lot of overlapping products as well.

Thanks for responding, Aleksey.

If there are certain groups of plugins, and you probably want something from each group, you cannot find a bundle for this.

I was all confused getting a login at your site, and trying to figure out what to buy. You strongly urge everyone to try them out before buying. Who has time to go through 20 products before making a decision.

#1. I would really like to be able to choose any of the EQ's, any of the compressors, and any from limiting series, and any from modulation series, and any from ambience series, and get a bundle deal for that.

#2. And I would like to be able to buy a bundle deal, maybe start with deciding on the compressor only. And when over time I have found which EQ I can decide that and check that EQ slot i now filled. And then test and decide which limiter or whatever.

You would tie up the customer and get payed for bundle deal right away, and he can collect as time pass and he is able to decide on the rest of the products in the bundle.

So making a number of such deals, one bundle for 3 types för $200(EQ, compressor, limiter), and one for 5 types for $300(also reverb and modulation) or similar.

Might this be a way that makes it good as possible deals for customer and for you as well?

Each plugin could get a coupon points, and a bundle deals makes it possible to select different plugs to fill the coupon. If you give each plug point according to price in USD, and you can buy a bundle for $400 for $300 or similar and even combine any plugs you want.

What do you think of this idea?

[Aleksey Vaneev]

At the Voxengo website you can freely choose ANY bundle deal you want, and receive a bundle discount (minimum 20%), so I guess this was covered already.

On your note about plug-in trying, this is a toughtest thing of all. Can you say, for example, that Waves, UAD, Sony, or any plug-in developer do a better job at telling what is best for your needs without even you trying their plug-ins? I doubt this is possible. But as for me I always gave my personal suggestions when somebody was asked me about better choice. So, I guess this is not a problem at all. If you are confused just ask. There can't be any universal suggestions: all depends on your budget, your needs and your expectations.

[lfm]

At the Voxengo website you can freely choose ANY bundle deal you want, and receive a bundle discount (minimum 20%), so I guess this was covered already.

I'm sorry if I offended you by my suggestions. But it does not cover what I want, to be able to extend decision of every part in time.

If you are a spurious shopper and go by feel in the supermarket and just throw things in your cart as you go, it's fine. But that's not me. I have a software business too since 15 years, and don't have a 7digit annual income either.

You've got a very nice looking site.

I am missing a link to each product from the purchase list. At least my mind does not conclude what each product does from the name. It would be very handy to go through the list, back and forth from list and each product description, check and add stuff to cart as you go. The list actually look less scary than the full screen of descriptions. I was pretty overwhelmed by this huge amount of things to choose from.

Thanks for talking to me. I might be back in 6 month or so if I can make a decision by then.

[headquest]

There a few points that come to mind when reading the thread thus far:

1) I think that if you don't have time to demo the products carefully, you be under estimating how long it takes to learn how to get the best results from the plug anyway. Putting in time is really important if you are determined to get the best results you can. And if you're not that determined, just use the effects that came with your host - no offense, but they really are probably fine for your needs anyway.

2) I think it has become less fair to lump Voxengo and Kjaerhus together. I bought into Kjaerhus Golden effects some time ago, and have mostly been happy with them (but not always). However, the range has been growing very slowly, and time seems to have been diverted into other projects (the Spectra synth) rather than on developing a more comprehensive range of mixing effects. The broken - or at least delayed - promise about sidechain in GCO is a good example, as is the promise of draggable nodes in GEQ7 that has never materialised. I have never seen Voxengo break their word however, and so I don't think it fair to consider them equals any longer - Voxengo seem to me to have established a very strong lead in their market sector, in terms of product range, quality of service to customers, and commitment to ongoing development. Congratulations to Aleksey for that!

3) GUP1 is indeed identical to the compressor in GAC1, although they are both sold in the same bundle. I think that is just wrong.

4) The point about Waves is a very good one. The Diamond bundle, for example, contains loads of overlap and as such it seems to me a complete waste of money (even though some of the individual plugs are excellent in their own right).

[lfm]

And how's that different from hardware ?

It's not.

But I'm am talking about software. Second hand value of software is just about zero which is an disadvantage, and the advantage of software is that it's updated for a lesser cost in many versions, unless it's plugins then.

Mostly hardware is better regarding second hand value as an advantage. Disadvantage is that what you buy is what you get.