Kjaerhus Gold Series, Overlap?

[Aleksey Vaneev]

I'm sorry if I offended you by my suggestions. But it does not cover what I want, to be able to extend decision of every part in time.

I've re-read your idea and now understand it better. This sounds like WUP from Waves. Personally, I do not like to sell what's not yet available. Beside that, you are trying to bring long-term investment categories into retail sales. This is risky for customers, so I'm mostly sure such tactic won't be accepted by customers (example: what IF some product gets replaced by another one, with another set of features? customer may become dissappointed with such decision). Not to speak about legality of such 'investing sales' in some countries.

[nBeat]

And how's that different from hardware ?

It's not.

But I'm am talking about software. Second hand value of software is just about zero which is an disadvantage, and the advantage of software is that it's updated for a lesser cost in many versions, unless it's plugins then.

Mostly hardware is better regarding second hand value as an advantage. Disadvantage is that what you buy is what you get.

I'm merely pointing out the connection between software
and hardware as both being a product you're buying.

Second hand value for software is IMO
irrelevant since it's cheap compared to hardware.

The point is, is it right to expect updates for
software app/plugin unless there are bugs to iron out ?
Shouldn't you buy an app/plugin for it's current feature set ?
Sure you can make requests for more features but that's
hardly something you'd be entitled to, would it ?

An example:
The GCO1, which I own, lacks sidechaining as you all know,
and I'd love to see that feature being implemented.
But I bought that plug knowing it lacked that particular function.
I don't feel like putting pressure on Torben or any other
developer to add features I didn't pay for.
Now if there were bugs, that would, like I stated above,
be something entirely different.

Of course this is just humble opinion.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Second hand value of software is just about zero which is an disadvantage

It is not zero. Second-hand value of software can be close to current 'official' sale value. I do not think somebody is going to give away his license to use the product he paid money for, for free.

[lfm]

I'm sorry if I offended you by my suggestions. But it does not cover what I want, to be able to extend decision of every part in time.

I've re-read your idea and now understand it better. This sounds like WUP from Waves. Personally, I do not like to sell what's not yet available. Beside that, you are trying to bring long-term investment categories into retail sales. This is risky for customers, so I'm mostly sure such tactic won't be accepted by customers (example: what IF some product gets replaced by another one, with another set of features? customer may become dissappointed with such decision). Not to speak about legality of such 'investing sales' in some countries.

I am very poor at explaining.

Right now I know I am looking for an EQ and a compressor, but have not decided which ones in your series. EssEQ, GlissEQ, HarmonyEQ or what they are called.

Let's say I like the GlissEQ best and decides about this now after testing.

But knowing I also want a compressor later on, but have not had time to test your set of compressors yet, I want to get the GlissEQ right now.

And I also think about some more like warmifier, voxformer and others.

So I buy bundle deal for maybe $300 but it would give me right to collect products for $400, and right now I choose to get GlissEQ since I have had time to test this out thoroughly. I pay $300 now, and download and register just GlissEQ.

As time goes by I also test your different compressors and find one that I like for my purposes, and goes back and download and register it(whatever they are called). Now this is also registered on my previous bundle account and reduces how much is left to use.

And I can continue to look at your products up to total of $400 until the bundle deal is closed. I can test as long as I like and I can start with getting a delivery of what I have found are products I want right away.

If I want to get the best deals this would be an advantage in my world. I don't have to test maybe 15 plugins thoroughly before I can decide and get a bundle of the kind you offer today.

But since it has been so difficult to even explain this, I guess there is no future or wish for anything like this.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

lfm, I totally understand what you mean. However, as I've replied, I do not like such marketing approach exactly for the reasons I've already mentioned: possibility of broken expectations, and legal side of things (I can't bill for unknown products - that becomes something like an investment).

Beside that, 20% off bundle deal is offered for all orders with any two products. Of course, if you are going to spend $400, the bundle discount is going to be higher.

In either case, as a marketing rule, no customer is going to spend $400 or more at once in our on-line plug-in business. In a course of a year this is possible, but not immediately. So, this is another point against enhancement you are offering.

[lfm]

Sure you can make requests for more features but that's
hardly something you'd be entitled to, would it ?

An example:
The GCO1, which I own, lacks sidechaining as you all know,
and I'd love to see that feature being implemented.
But I bought that plug knowing it lacked that particular function.
I don't feel like putting pressure on Torben or any other
developer to add features I didn't pay for.

But let's say there was a new version of GCO1, with sidechaining abilities. Would you not consider upgrade cost of maybe $20, for this and maybe other enhancements?

Wouldn't that be nice, instead of having to buy a completely new product for maybe $100?

This is how it works for samplers, recording hosts and just about all software BUT PLUGINS. You pay for upgrades.

I'm not saying having this for free. No way, I'm ready to pay for things I like and need.

You are very happy with GCO1 but want sidechaining, why having to leave this products for another one.

I'm just very surpriced at how it works for plugins mostly.

But there are exceptions. I have bought updates from Izotope Ozone 2 to 3, and I would upgrade if there were new versions for Trash as well.

Voxengos product series would not need to be more that 6-7 products maybe differences were addons to old products instead, instead 20-25 or what there is today. And it would be much easier to know what to get, and bundle from Voxengo is all you need.

I was very close to buying a Kjaerhus Gold series compressor(can't remember which one) but saw there are no new versions or further development. If I spent money on this one this money would be wasted if something I later want never shows up. Let's say it has to do with 64bit support. Spend money now on something that never is developed further would make this money wasted if going for 64bit all the way through in future.

Maybe I'm alone thinking like this.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

I do not think you are all that right thinking that it is possible to shrink all commercial Voxengo plug-ins into 6-7 plug-ins. Of course, if you are not thinking about multi-part plug-ins. I dislike multi-part plug-ins like Ozone. It is just not my style: it reduces creative VST connectivity freedom (as seen from perspective of modular hosts like AudioMulch and EnergyXT).

So, I guess it is a question of taste and your personal preferences. Not something to constructively argue about.

As for updates and upgrades, please leave that to developers. Beside that I do not understand the reasoning behind investing into Working plug-in just because it is going to be updated, especially if we are talking about plug-ins which are in 90% of cases are finished products without place for further enhancements. 64-bit support is a different story, on the other hand: unless developer says 'there will be no 64-bit support' it is totally pointless to think that there will be no 64-bit support. We are in business, after all. Market forces us to do this or that: you should probably keep that in mind when doing buying decisions. If we do not release 64-bit code after a year from Windows Vista release, we'll probably face marketing problems.

[nBeat]

But let's say there was a new version of GCO1, with sidechaining abilities. Would you not consider upgrade cost of maybe $20, for this and maybe other enhancements?

Yes I would, but I bought it "as is" without any expectations
for updates/upgrades except for eventual bugfixes.

I'm not saying having this for free. No way, I'm ready to pay for things I like and need.

On that we agree.

You are very happy with GCO1 but want sidechaining, why having to leave this products for another one.

I believe they can coexist.

I was very close to buying a Kjaerhus Gold series compressor(can't remember which one) but saw there are no new versions or further development. If I spent money on this one this money would be wasted if something I later want never shows up.

But you tried the demo, it ran fine and had the features you wanted ?
You liked the way it sounded ?
If so, yet you rejected it just because of lack of development ?

Besides, what you may or may not want in the future can
neither you or least of all the developer predict.
After that, I think it's pretty much up to the developer to
decide. Let's just hope he have a big ear and a good heart.
It also depends on how many customers want this or that added I think.

[nBeat]

Come to think of it.
I actually bugged René @ rgcAudio a few times, begging
him to add a retrig key-mode for Z3ta+ when in
monophonic mode. He failed to see the point and so that
feature never saw the light of day. Too bad.
It's a classic feature common on many vintage gear.
Something I've grown accustomed to and shaped my playing style.
Still Z3ta+ is a fine instrument and René a great guy.

Life is full of compromises.

[jmbriley]

Hijacking in progress. Of this thread that is.

[M'Snah]

This is how it works for samplers, recording hosts and just about all software BUT PLUGINS. You pay for upgrades.

I'm not saying having this for free. No way, I'm ready to pay for things I like and need.

This completely depends on the company (e.g. the developer). Some give you upgrades for free (energyXT, concreteFX, Nubi, etc). Some of the bigger ones make you pay (Linplug, NI), which is justified IMHO. There's even one of the smaller ones who defines new major releases (1.0->2.0->3.0) with only minor changes, and lets you pay anyway.

Yes I would, but I bought it "as is" without any expectations
for updates/upgrades except for eventual bugfixes.

+1. I buy products for their current feature set, except for some of the beta pre-orders (Poly-Ana, Zebra).

[lfm]

I do not think you are all that right thinking that it is possible to shrink all commercial Voxengo plug-ins into 6-7 plug-ins. Of course, if you are not thinking about multi-part plug-ins. I dislike multi-part plug-ins like Ozone. It is just not my style: it reduces creative VST connectivity freedom (as seen from perspective of modular hosts like AudioMulch and EnergyXT).

So, I guess it is a question of taste and your personal preferences. Not something to constructively argue about.

The point is that they develop the product as time goes by and you can upgrade for 25% of new price.

You already have multipart plugins as I see it. Combined coloring and EQ is multipart as one example. So you combine different aspects and makes a new product instead of just making a switch to activate a new feature in a new version of the old product. EssEQ, GlissEQ and HarmonyEQ could just as well be one single product, and having switches to activate different features. Thinking like this could reduce your product range to 6-7 really, really strong products, and you would reduce confusion for customer to the same degree.

A strict EQ is totally transparent, apart from the change is frequency response as entered.

As for updates and upgrades, please leave that to developers. Beside that I do not understand the reasoning behind investing into Working plug-in just because it is going to be updated, especially if we are talking about plug-ins which are in 90% of cases are finished products without place for further enhancements.

I am a potential customer, and will not leave it to developers without giving my view. Where there is communication there is developement.

If we do not release 64-bit code after a year from Windows Vista release, we'll probably face marketing problems.

But will your existing plugins be updated with 64bit support?
(not for free, but for a smaller fee of course)

Or will there be yet another product series, and expecting customers to buy them all over again?

This is the core of my topic and reasoning here.

[lfm]

Hijacking in progress. Of this thread that is.

Yes, I'm sorry for my part in that. It was not intended. If Kjaerhus would insert their comments it would not have been hijacked as much. I'm surpriced they have not commented anything here.

[M'Snah]

Hijacking in progress. Of this thread that is.

Yes, I'm sorry for my part in that. It was not intended. If Kjaerhus would insert their comments it would not have been hijacked as much. I'm surpriced they have not commented anything here.

Although some developers sometimes post here, it is not a requirement. NI never post at kvraudio, Tracktion seldomly, Voxengo and U-He a lot... But if you really want to reach Kjaerhus, send them an email, or go to their forum: http://forum.kjaerhusaudio.com/

[nBeat]

[edit]
M'Snah beat me to it.