Kjaerhus Gold Series, Overlap?

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Answer was more or less, well let us developers decide what is best - and my reaction is that we users knows best what we want.

I was only saying that whether to release free or paid updates/upgrades, and whether to release them or not at all is up to developer. The contents of the update is another story - be it 64-bit code, or additional EQ mode. However, listening and implementing ALL user comments can go too far: I've made some mistakes already, and so I'm going to weight all enhancements better in the future.

[M'Snah]

Looking at the kvr VST info: Ozone updated to 3.0.6 Nov 2004, updated to 3.0.9 (bugfixes + 64bit) July 2006, 3.10 (Protools / performance) Aug 2006.

Part of this discussion was the regular offering of updates on products. You'll have to find another example for that lfm.

[lfm]

Looking at the kvr VST info: Ozone updated to 3.0.6 Nov 2004, updated to 3.0.9 (bugfixes + 64bit) July 2006, 3.10 (Protools / performance) Aug 2006.

Part of this discussion was the regular offering of updates on products. You'll have to find another example for that lfm.

I started off with asking why the policy for upgrades for plugins differ from other software. And I happened to have an example that did actually did this, but not as often as I would have wished. I have put numerous of suggestions to Izotope to fix external midi controller abilites for Ozone to be able to sit and listen with eyes shut, and turning physical knobs etc. The suttle changes you are dealing with for mastering really need this, in my view.

So I'm not defending Izotope as a raw model for others to follow. I would have liked to see a more active development, and that's why I started to look at other alternatives that are more active developers and possibly would have support for external controllers(I remember that Aleksey had a thread about this a while back and it made me interested in his products).

But in Izotopes defence is still that they have not pushed a dozen other products with just about the same features either. I'm sure there will be another Ozone version instead with new stuff inside.

My demand is not every year a new version, but maybe every second year or so would be nice with a major update. Something new to upgrade every year on every product might be too much.

[Torben]

I was looking at demoing the Gold Series and it seems to be alot of overlap regarding the compressors. Which one(s) is used most on vocals, bass and drums. What are the differences in the compressors? Thanks.

Both the GCO-1 and GUP-1 can be used for all kinds of instruments, drums, vocals and mixed material. The GCO-1 can do upward expansion as well and has much more parameters to control the sound and behaviour. The GCO-1 was originate made this way because we wanted to offer one compressor that could be adjusted to satisfy all kinds of material and taste in stead of making ten compressors with different flavours like some of our competitors. However, some people complained the GCO-1 seemed too complex and asked for a more basic compressor; which was why we released the GUP-1 which is the compressor from the GAC-1 channel strip.

The GCO-1 does not yet offer external side chain input like the GUP-1 because only a couple of Hosts supported that when the GCO-1 was designed. However this feature is included in the second edition we expect to release in a few months.

If you got more questions regarding our products I recommend you to join our forum where you will have a higher chance of getting on topic answers; posts on KvR too often gets high jacked or destroyed by trolls which is why I hardly ever go here my self any more.

Cheers

Torben

[nBeat]

Cheers to Torben.

[kylen]

...this feature is included in the second edition we expect to release in a few months.

Mmmm - Yummy ! Nice idea Torben for the next generation!

[sounddesigner]

But in Izotopes defence is still that they have not pushed a dozen other products with just about the same features either. I'm sure there will be another Ozone version instead with new stuff inside.

There is a small degree of overlaping in izotope products, Ozone and Trash both are multiband compressors, and Trash and Spectron both are filters as well as delays, but all are different flavours. I think as any developers plugin line grows theres going to be some overlapping, wich is'nt bad usually, i prefer each of the overlaps to be different flavours completely, when i demo'd waves much of their stuff did'nt sound different enough to justify me buying the expensive platnum or diamond bundle, sure they differ but not enough to my ears. The voxengo eq's and compressors sound completely different to me.
I like both ways the "all plugins in one" aproach, and the "each type sold separately" approach. I bought izotopes and db-audioware's Quantum fx (probably the biggest all in one out here) for all in ones.but each sell other products that overlapp as well, db-audioware has other compressors apart from quantum likewize izotope with ozone.For many of us in the end it boils down to what the mix wants and most 'all in ones' have a overall sound characteristic that's present in each of it's plugin parts, for mixing this is not always bad but due to mix needs it is not always good either. Thus i like to pick and choose my own plugin types separately as well. 'All in ones' are beautifull to me too, but i guess what i'm trying to say is i would'nt want all developers to adopt the same method of developing, diversity is needed. Both 'all in ones' and 'each type sold separately' has there advantages and disadvantages and if all developers adopted one way we'd have disadvantages that are harder to get around.

[bmanic]

Wow! GCO-1 SE looks fabulous! Does it have upgraded insides as well? (like the oversampled side chain/detector)?

Cheers!
bManic

[Amberience]

...this feature is included in the second edition we expect to release in a few months.

Mmmm - Yummy ! Nice idea Torben for the next generation!

Is it going to be free for current owners of GCO-1 or is it going to be a totally different product and therefore we will have to pay another $100 or so to get the feature that we've been missing for ages?

[Kraku]

The GCO-1 does not yet offer external side chain input like the GUP-1 because only a couple of Hosts supported that when the GCO-1 was designed. However this feature is included in the second edition we expect to release in a few months.

Oooh!

Will it be available as UniversalBinary AU at release? If it will, is there an upgrade fee?

Oh, and I see that there's the new mix knob for the dry/wet signal level

[Torben]

We will update the whole Gold Series with new GUI's, MIDI Learn and the features people has be asking us to add like external side chain, dragable handles on the EQ etc. There will be smaller adjustments on some of the algorithms as well.

It will be released for Win VST/RTAS and Mac VST/RTAS/AU. There will be a small upgrade fee for $15 to cover administration. You will be able to install it on more PC's and/or Mac's as well.

Torben

[Amberience]

lmao, I knew there would be a charge. Still, $15 isn't that bad.

[headquest]

That price is entirely fair for the added functionality. I look forward to seeing these, and will upgrade the ones I have (GCO, GEQ, GMO). It's good to know the updates will finally come, and I still hope that the series might also grow to include some other useful tracking effects (Delay, Reverb, Multiband, Distortion, Exciter, etc).

Thanks for the confirmation Torben.

[kylen]

... posts on KvR too often gets high jacked or destroyed by trolls which is why I hardly ever go here my self any more.

I'm no stranger to the OT post myself - sorry 'bout that, it's just my internet social style (or lack of!). But you do seem to get questioned alot and even harrassed IMO, maybe because of your rep people expect a lot - or maybe it's just people want, want, want. I like a good bargain myself. I like the KVR community in general and think it's a great place for the meeting of Plugin Devs and Plugin Users. Sometimes the troll posts do get the better of a good developer though and I think there's a vendetta...but it kind of evens out in the long run and once they get their warm milk and go to bed things get better!

On another note:
Personally I never asked for the GCO sidechain, was never promised it and didn't expect it. If it shows up in a later model that has been retooled enough to justify asking for money then that's ok too. I try to support software dev when I can (times have been a little dry for me lately) instead of just caving in and saving for a Weiss or Manley. I just really like the idea of getting a good sound by using plugins. Being in the Home-based Project Studio "industry" I can afford to think like that - especially since my primary gig is IT. Anyway if the next generation of GCO cost $$ then I'm sure the Kjaerhus loyal-customer plan or a group buy will take some of the pain out for me and at the same time compensate Torben so he may continue his "audio scientist" activities. Same for Voxengo and Christian as well as a few others I help support here at KVR...

The overlap thing is natural IMO. Improved algorithms and optimizations as well as interface changes like VST2 (or whatever it's called) may not always lend themselves to updating a plugin model - so a new model or next generation must be built and tested. Developers and plugins evolve I would hope and at some point I think you just have to create a new plugin release. The folks who have come to know and love the earlier model wouldn't want to see it disappear so now we have overlap. In the case of GUP people were begging for a subset of GCO which was provided...so there's naturaly overlap there.

2cents

[Kraku]

$15 is perfectly reasonable. I'll upgrade right away when the GCO-1 SE is available