Tracktion 3 preview

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

I wouldn't say that they have ignored it. However, there are many details that are yet to be diverged. It's entirely possible that the bug is complex(as has been stated) and that since it's still in testing, they don't want to promise anything yet? I'd say that's fair, and doesn't necessarily mean it's been ignored. TRUST me, Mackie knows about it and wants to fix it. Why wouldn't they?

Brent
My host is better than your host
Top

Post

I get the feeling the first note bug hasn't been fixed.
Shame, as Tracktions a purdy good rewire host - apart from that annoyance which really messes up playing with the matrix device etc. (especially in complex combos).
Apart from that pain the update appears fairly spiffing.
Top

Post

Again, it's all speculation until Beno is allowed to give out all the features and fixes. Like I said above, it's a crazy thought to think that Mackie doesn't want to fix it, or that they haven't addressed it.

And if they haven't fixed it, that still doesn't mean they are ignoring it. It just means it's probably more in depth then they imagined.

I'd wait them out and see what happens.

Brent
My host is better than your host
Top

Post

dont forget that beno is only allowed to say a certain amount about what is going on (remember the delay waiting for the T3 features thread while he presumably waited for clearance from mackie marketing ??? ) ...

... personally i see the silence on this as indicative of one of three possible scenarios (and i know no more about which one might be the case than anyone here) ...

1 - sorting it out WILL require (as has been suggested before) a TOTAL audio engine rewrite and there just isnt time to do that for T3 ... to confirm this from a marketing point of view might not be too good an idea ...

2 - the T3 dev team are working on a way to fix / eliminate the effect of this bug but dont want to say anything publicly just in case it DOES need a total engine rewrite ...

3 - beno just plain isnt allowed to discuss this for whatever reason ...

... i know none of those make bearing the silence any easier but just looking for a possible explanation ...

... of course ... there is also a harsh view that would say resources need to be applied in a systematic and efficient way and for the number of users it badly affects (given there are relatively easy workarounds for most dropped first note situations although not sure about the rewire one since i dont use it personally) it isnt worth spending time on that at the expense of features / bugfixes that will affect a greater number of users (or attract a greater number of new customers) ...

... hope the tone of that is clear enough ... not trying to defend mackie over this (TBH if it was my decision id REALLY try to get this fixed / hidden for the T3 launch since its a very visible issue for some users and has been around for ages) or belittle the effect of the first note thing for some users ... just guessing at what might be happening ...

slainte :shrug: rob
Top

Post

Koolkeys - yes, hopefully that's it - they are being cautious while still testing. If they have rewritten the audio engine they would likely still be checking that out prior to release. :)

Diverdee - yes, Tracktion is a fantastic rewire host except for this one annoyance :)
Top

Post

pHz - we cross-posted there, but yes, you make several good points :)

Staying optomistic and excited then... with *added patience*... :hihi:
Top

Post

the only question I have: When can I upgrade!!!!!!!!!

http://www.base.at / http://www.fuckhead.at/wipeout
Top

Post

headquest wrote:Christianmusicmaker - like you I have felt very positive about this update, and got the impression that Mackie are really listening to users. However... the first note bug may have been ignored yet again...

I sent a PM to Beno last week with questions that he came back quickly with an answer. I sent a second PM in which I asked about the first note bug, and he ignored it.


There could be any number of good reasons for this. He may very well get back to you via PM once he knows something.
Several people have also asked on the RMS thread lots of questions that he answered, but the question about the first note bug has also been repeatedly asked there, and again has been ignored...
T3 (based on Benos comments about dual core support) does not have a 100% final feautre set yet, so if dual core is at least being considered as a possible feature prior to T3's release then I think the first note bug may also be addressed within this time frame.

It might not of course, but lets see. :wink:
I'm kinda concerned that they would have still ignored that after all this time, and if they have I think it would be a deal-breaker for me, both because of the problem itself, and because of what that indicates about the whole issue of "developer support"... it would strongly suggest that they are keen to implement FR for which they can charge, but not deal with BR for which they possibly can't as such.
Based on Mackies very user driven T3 feature list I have no doubt they are fully aware of it but I personally think it may be a small bug that requires a very large amount of work. Possibly that much time was just not available during the T3 development cycle. :shrug:
Staying optomistic and excited then... with *added patience*...
8)
Top

Post

Beno wrote:OK, here is the word on first note bug. We haven't yet tried to fix it. We are still finishing up some last minute new features raised in this thread (hint hint). At some time before release, we will spend look at the first note bug. There are no guarantees on if it can/will be fixed in the allotted time but we will definitely do what we can.
Ben
I like it that Ben is being honest about this, and that they will try to get it fixed, but it's really very weird that after all this time they haven't even tried to fix it yet :? .

Quite a few people will remember the shock of discovering it was not fixed in T2 in early 2005... for it to be unfixed in T3 in early 2007 is pretty unthinkable :shock: . So I really hope they are successful in fixing this...
christianmusicmaker wrote:Based on Mackies very user driven T3 feature list...
That no longer exactly rings true... :? As I said before, FR: yes... BR: apparently not. :(

But hey! - on the plus side we now know they are working on adding Multicore Support, aftertouch, and fixing the first note bug. If they are successful, given the list of exciting new stuff already announced, T3 could yet be the killer application many of us are still hoping for. 8)
Top

Post

Well, for those of you who haven't read the thread today at RMS forums, Beno has stated these things:

1. They have not yet fixed the dropped note bug. HOWEVER, they will be looking at it before release.

2. The reason they have not fixed it yet is because they are working on last minute requests from that thread. Dual core perhaps?

3. The time stretch algo used in T3 is the same one used in Ableton Live. ZPlane Elastique.

Brent
My host is better than your host
Top

Post

Hi again Brent, and thanks for the updates 8)
koolkeys wrote: 2. The reason they have not fixed it yet is because they are working on last minute requests from that thread. Dual core perhaps?
And aftertouch, I think :wink:

That doesn't make sense as a reason though... according to users on that thread, multicore support was only a major request in the past year or two... while the first note bug has been a request for at least four years now.... :?
3. The time stretch algo used in T3 is the same one used in Ableton Live. ZPlane Elastique.
That's a good move. Just to clarify though, the ZPlane is not Live's only/main algorithm. And its worth bearing in mind that Live users quite regularly complain/moan about the quality of Live's timestretch :shock:
(imho, that's often a case of *user error* however... there are several "warp modes" with additional controls to them that are regularly overlooked, especially by newbies.)
Top

Post

having said that ... the elastique algo is still proboably the best 'non-boutique' (and therefore affordable) timestretch available and is used by MANY more big name audio devs than just imageline and ableton already ...

... also remember that the current focus of Ts timestretching is PROBABLY not to time correct long fluctuating passages of audio that you would use lives or cubases warp markers for (howver nice an addition that might be in the future) ...

slainte :ud: rob
Top

Post

Very true. I think that Ableton implemented it "with knobs on" in a way. In FL in its *raw* form, the zplane sounds fantastic. I'm sure in T3 it will too... a great addition, as this was an area where T2 was widely regarded as weak. Can't wait to try this out in T3 :D
Top

Post

The things that caused me to stop using Tracktion.

No aftertouch
No ability to record softsynth directly to audio
No multi-core support (and no announced support upcoming), especially combined with a timeconsuming and uneditable freeze function.
No clip based automation.
No easy save/copy/move of midi clips (browser)
Midi editing and workflow weak in general.

I also had regular crashes working with softsynths (especially AAS stuff)


All problems to do with midi side. The first note problem is also a midi issue, but was not a problem for me, though obviously was for others. After a year or so, I decided to switch because the midi side did not seem to be a focus of development. The T3 upgrade looks quite nice, but for my interest, that there is still no aftertouch, multi-core support, first note problem still there, not much mentioned about improved piano roll etc. I am glad I did not wait. It is clear that midi was secondary to audio stuff. Which may be Mackie simply responding to the interests of the majority of users, so no problem there. I just made the right choice for myself.
Top

Post

headquest wrote:That doesn't make sense as a reason though... according to users on that thread, multicore support was only a major request in the past year or two... while the first note bug has been a request for at least four years now.... :?
The reasons have already been discussed to death, even in this thread! There haven't ever been any "specifics," but the short version is: it turned out to be waaaaaayyyy more complicated to fix than anybody could have anticipated. What seems like an easy fix from a user end is completey different than what is possible from a coding end. It seems plausible-- after all, there's no reason for them to WANT it to remain unfixed.... :? So I'm still willing to extend benefit of the doubt. Positivity, right? ;)

pdxindy-- I'm curious about how you visualize clip-based automation working. I thought it was a no-brainer, too, until I tried to work the logistics through. Taking into account clips that might overlap (and yet feed the same softsynth), moving clips to other tracks that don't contain the same plug-in, etc., etc., I ended up having a very difficult time working up a model for a working per-clip automation idea. It's one of those things easier said than done, and I for one can't figure out how to do it within T. I'm sure there's a way, but I haven't seen anyone actually put the idea forward. Most people are content just to ask for it. ;) For example, what would be the expected behaviour of an automation curve when two clips overlap?

Greg
Image
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”