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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Listen, Im not trying to defend this guy Chemist who is clearly out to make a fast buck. Not in any way. Rather I am trying to put his crime in context.
TB
TB
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Absolutely. He is a good guy. And there are some GREAT interviews knocking around. The one he did for Waves was great, lol.shamann wrote:Thanks. Googling him now. Apparently he loves him some Waves and Digidesign. And he seems to be all over the place talking about technique. Nice to see.
TB
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- KVRAF
- 4669 posts since 26 Sep, 2005 from U.A.E
i like sampling, but is everything ripe for sampling?tee boy wrote:Listen, Im not trying to defend this guy Chemist who is clearly out to make a fast buck. Not in any way. Rather I am trying to put his crime in context.
TB
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
If its never going to leave your bedroom, then yeah!
If its going out commerically (as this fellas stuff is), then no.
The strange thing is though, that so many of the major sample companies do release totally nicked material. I'll never understand it. At what point did '100% copyright free' start meaning 'probably 80% copyright free if your lucky'?!
TB
If its going out commerically (as this fellas stuff is), then no.
The strange thing is though, that so many of the major sample companies do release totally nicked material. I'll never understand it. At what point did '100% copyright free' start meaning 'probably 80% copyright free if your lucky'?!
TB
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- KVRian
- 606 posts since 6 Aug, 2005
What im wondering now is if someone buys something like this without realizing it's been taken from someones record, makes a track, releases it, then gets taken to court by the artist that made the beat/sample would the fact that they were basically ripped off count as anything for them legally or would they just end up loosing loads of money 
Im guessing that now theres so many small company sample cd developers selling stuff on ebay ect that unless you buy from a major company, zero G ect then it's possible you could get tricked if you decide to buy and find yourself in trouble 
Im guessing that now theres so many small company sample cd developers selling stuff on ebay ect that unless you buy from a major company, zero G ect then it's possible you could get tricked if you decide to buy and find yourself in trouble 
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- KVRian
- 606 posts since 6 Aug, 2005
And thinking about it now i actually own a few jungle sample cds that have some well known breakbeats slightly modified on them, im guessing the reason for this is that theres sections by various jungle/dnb artists so it basically depends on how the artists making there beats.
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Well thats the thing isnt it.Atomsplitter wrote:What im wondering now is if someone buys something like this without realizing it's been taken from someones record, makes a track, releases it, then gets taken to court by the artist that made the beat/sample would the fact that they were basically ripped off count as anything for them legally or would they just end up loosing loads of money
Im pretty sure if you release a sample CD with a big dev and it turns out to have hot material on, that the owner AND the dev can sue you! They wash their hands of it, lol.
This is why I get so shocked by Ueberschall. I found '50 Cent - In da Club' break on one of their CD's, amongst others. And I asked the guy on the Ueberschall forum what that was all about, and he sent me this totally condescending reply.
But hey, if I used that in a track and released it, theres a good chance Id get in trouble, right?
So yeah, that is somewhat of a pet peave. Sample companies should KNOW that products are totally clean before they guarentee them 100% copyright free. But no manufacturer can absolutely guarentee that. I mean, Spec's probably come among the closest. But still, you telling me there are no sampled hits on Metamorphosis? I know there is. So even that is totally clean.
Yet we are all here ripping strips out of this guy, and he isnt doing anything THAT different. Where he went wrong is that he didnt try to bullshit up that its totally clean, lol. If he had, then we'd probably be buying his sample CD's without a single complaint
TB
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- KVRian
- 1399 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
----Yer comparing one break on a sample cd, to a cd full of samples from old drum machines or a Fantom synth ? 
Come on. As far as buying sample/loop cds, well, shop around, and don't buy from companies based in countries that have no copyright laws. 
Ultimately, it's up to you/me/us, as consumers, to research it, luckily, with the internet, it's super easy to find out who and what is legit.
Jeff
Come on. As far as buying sample/loop cds, well, shop around, and don't buy from companies based in countries that have no copyright laws. Ultimately, it's up to you/me/us, as consumers, to research it, luckily, with the internet, it's super easy to find out who and what is legit.Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Ofcourse, but is stealing 10 apples really different from stealing one?
I know the 'theft' analog is faulty, but you get what Im saying, right? Im not defending the guy. Only trying to put it in context.
Every beats CD I have from the big sample devs contains ALOT of illegal material. Some more than others. SOME (such as House Essentials for example) is made up of practically all sampled and uncleared loops.
Infact, House Essentials is a perfect example. Their is not ONE legal loop on that CD. All of them contain sampled and uncleared hits. Some of them are even worse, they are just loops lifted straight off 90's house records!
Yet Ueberschall have their own forum on this board! If I were to try to share House Essentials, I would be flamed down to size in an instant. Yet this guy is doing nothing different, and he is taking the full brunt.
It makes me wonder about how people REALLY feel about copyright infringement. Thats why I raise the issue and keep harping on about it. This is on the surface a very morally decisive community - this is cool, this is not cool etc. But yet issues like this demonstrate that its not so cut and dry. We protect the 'rights' of one thief (ie Ueberschall) yet flame another for doing the same thing.
Perhaps if Ueberschall had released one of Chemist's CD's, then we wouldnt be having this discussion?
TB
I know the 'theft' analog is faulty, but you get what Im saying, right? Im not defending the guy. Only trying to put it in context.
Every beats CD I have from the big sample devs contains ALOT of illegal material. Some more than others. SOME (such as House Essentials for example) is made up of practically all sampled and uncleared loops.
Infact, House Essentials is a perfect example. Their is not ONE legal loop on that CD. All of them contain sampled and uncleared hits. Some of them are even worse, they are just loops lifted straight off 90's house records!
Yet Ueberschall have their own forum on this board! If I were to try to share House Essentials, I would be flamed down to size in an instant. Yet this guy is doing nothing different, and he is taking the full brunt.
It makes me wonder about how people REALLY feel about copyright infringement. Thats why I raise the issue and keep harping on about it. This is on the surface a very morally decisive community - this is cool, this is not cool etc. But yet issues like this demonstrate that its not so cut and dry. We protect the 'rights' of one thief (ie Ueberschall) yet flame another for doing the same thing.
Perhaps if Ueberschall had released one of Chemist's CD's, then we wouldnt be having this discussion?
TB
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- KVRian
- 1399 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
----Well, I'm not one to defend stolen samples, there's just no need these days. And if some comapny is selling stolen samples, then by all means, let them know they need to stop doing that because you're on to them. I wouldn't feel bad at all pointing out a whole bunch of stolen samples/loops and warning people, I just meant one or two is hardly the end of the world, and might have been a mistake or meant to sound just like the original.
----I've never been one to go for samples/loops that sound "just like so and so", I'd rather get some generic sound-a-likes that I can tweak anyways. I personally, am more into "sampling a style" than an individual though. It just seems completely retarded to pay for, or even steal yourself and use, samples that you can't afford to clear, it makes your music all that much harder to get heard, and impossible to sell. *shrug*
Jeff
----I've never been one to go for samples/loops that sound "just like so and so", I'd rather get some generic sound-a-likes that I can tweak anyways. I personally, am more into "sampling a style" than an individual though. It just seems completely retarded to pay for, or even steal yourself and use, samples that you can't afford to clear, it makes your music all that much harder to get heard, and impossible to sell. *shrug*
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
Jeff,
Yeah, I think I agree with you on those points.
When I do sample, its tends to be for various reasons:
- Loops or even music for temp tracks (I sample ALL the loops I can find from rock tracks as they are great for temp drum tracks).
- As source material for sound design (sometimes I like to use vinyl samples as a medium for my own sound design)
- If the style requires a particular 'sound', such as disco house for example. If I wanted to make that kind of track, ie a remix style track, Id use a sample. Obviously in those rare cases (as I dont really make that kind of music) I have to follow certain legal guidelines.
- Occassionally I think a little vocal snippet can be effective. Again, its a sample so it has to be treated carefully in that respect.
I certainly DO NOT like to BUY sample CD's though and find uncleared material though. It thoroughly offends me. Iv caught some beauties in my time. Some of them I wonder how the hell they have gotten away with it, lol. For instance, Iv actually found sections from major hollywood movies film scores, cut out, looped and included in ambient sample collections by MAJOR devs. It seems Im the only on who noticed it, but that aside, my jaw hit the ground!
I really wish I had a crystal ball right now, as I would LOVE to see how the sample industry will develop over the next few years. I think its going to be a really interesting time for those in the business.
TB
Yeah, I think I agree with you on those points.
When I do sample, its tends to be for various reasons:
- Loops or even music for temp tracks (I sample ALL the loops I can find from rock tracks as they are great for temp drum tracks).
- As source material for sound design (sometimes I like to use vinyl samples as a medium for my own sound design)
- If the style requires a particular 'sound', such as disco house for example. If I wanted to make that kind of track, ie a remix style track, Id use a sample. Obviously in those rare cases (as I dont really make that kind of music) I have to follow certain legal guidelines.
- Occassionally I think a little vocal snippet can be effective. Again, its a sample so it has to be treated carefully in that respect.
I certainly DO NOT like to BUY sample CD's though and find uncleared material though. It thoroughly offends me. Iv caught some beauties in my time. Some of them I wonder how the hell they have gotten away with it, lol. For instance, Iv actually found sections from major hollywood movies film scores, cut out, looped and included in ambient sample collections by MAJOR devs. It seems Im the only on who noticed it, but that aside, my jaw hit the ground!
I really wish I had a crystal ball right now, as I would LOVE to see how the sample industry will develop over the next few years. I think its going to be a really interesting time for those in the business.
TB