The best pianoroll/midi editing sequencer on the market?

[Caleb]

I was also referring to the enhancements eXT has made to keyboard entry of notes. I don't use them myself, but those strike me as another advance in note entry - possibly appeals more to the tracker/ex-tracker crowd.

You mean using the PC keyboard as an ersatz piano keyboard? I've done that once or twice in ORION but its not something I'd really use.

I really should look into what those features actually were. I never really looked to go beyond mouse work and external midi input so I never checked it out.

It's some sort of way to make step recording faster using keyboard entry. I don't think it was using QWERTY as a pseudo midi keyboard though.

It sounded like it was appreciated at the time which is why I was thinking about it when I wrote my response.

By the way - I don't necessarily think EnergyXT is a better piano roll for note entry than Orion. It's been far too long since I used Orion anyway so I couldn't draw a meaningful comparison. I just think it's quite good and could be even better.

It's amazing how after using one host for a while you can be so confounded by the simplest things on another host. I opened up a Sonar5 demo the other day and couldn't work out for the life of me how to add a midi clip to a midi track. I was double-clicking, right-clicking and looking an add part option etc... Nothing.

I finally found that I just selected view piano roll (or similar) and there it was.

To me that seems totally unintuitive. How can I view something I haven't created yet - I wouldn't even think of going there.

But once I found it and thought about it for a bit, it's not really that illogical - you just need to come at it from a different angle.

Regards
Caleb

[superddman]

tried virtually all hosts out there. IMO, #1 would be FL Studio, #2 Orion, #3 Ableton (Ableton if you do basics)

[BONES]

I'm re-quantizing stuff all the time. And I'm also using different quantize values for different parts. That's when Logic's part parameter box comes in extremely handy.
Oh, whatever groove templates (probably generated out of an audio file) show up in there as well. Something else I'm using quite sometimes, especially since you can easily adjust how much, say, a naturally recorded shaker's groove template would apply to whatever other part.

Sounds like you've taken your focus off the performance itself and onto the way you modify it. Given your background that is a really interesting cybernetic mutation. My focus is, as always, on the result so once I'm happy with a part, I rarely change any of that aspect of it.

Best piano roll to me is Cubase's. One of it's cooler features is the "iterative quantize" command where after you've performed a part and that part is somewhat out of time, you can use this command and it will gradually move towards the grid each time you do the command.

I use a similar process with most of the |Edit| menu features in ORION. Never used quantise so I'm not sure how well it would work with that but I do it a lot with things like "Scale Automation", Humanise and Groove Template. i.e. I use gentle settings and just apply them iteratively until I'm happy.

He's right,I believe.We need to add a better human interface technique/device to the mouse and keyboard.

I couldn't agree less. I am a left-handed artist and I can draw as well right-handed with a mouse as I can left-handed with a pen and tablet. i.e. Not very well with either but well enough to get by. Its a matter of the application supporting the device in a smart way. e.g. In the latest version of Flame you can rotate your view to make drawing easier, just as you would rotate a piece of paper. That is precisely when a pen/tablet starts to outperform a mouse but given that drawing is only about 10% of what I do as a VFX artist or broadcast designer, its hardly relevant. I can use the same mouse for art, music and everythign else so I am able to leverage one skill-set, that i spend 8 or 10 hours a day honing to a fine edge, for everything I do. If only I could drive with a mouse!?!

[bastien]

The best Piano Roll is in Hollis Research Trackman 2. You'll need an Atari ST to run it though.

[Sascha Franck]

Sounds like you've taken your focus off the performance itself and onto the way you modify it. Given your background that is a really interesting cybernetic mutation. My focus is, as always, on the result so once I'm happy with a part, I rarely change any of that aspect of it.

Well, I think it matches my background perfectly.
A) I'm not a good keyboard player by any means. As a result of that, I usually just need to quantize my piano playing. To give the quantized part back a bit of human feel, I often alter the q-settings, should it sound too sterile.
B) I'm modifying loops often. Sometimes I want them to shuffle a bit more or less, sometimes I want them to be slightly quantized, etc etc. The same goes for drum and percussion parts I'm doing by myself. At first I usually quantize them rather strictly, but when it comes to adding the final feel, I may just alter some of the q-settings.

[BONES]

I'm not any kind of keyboard player and I never f**k with timing - its always exactly on the beat.

[Sascha Franck]

I'm not any kind of keyboard player and I never f**k with timing - its always exactly on the beat.

I know.
That's why I said horses for courses.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[BONES]

But yet again you only look at a single aspect of it. Features are infinitely less important to me than usability and the simple fact is that I find all the big sequencers pretty much completely unusable, which makes their features utterly irrelevant.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[TVD]

Once you apply quantising in ORION, its applied AFAIK, or you can quantise on the way in. I don't see any advantage in being able to see the settings at a later time, unless you want to see how clever you were by being almost in time. Mind you, I don't see any advantage in playing stuff in at all, using a mouse is far more efficient.

Tell me about it! I can MIDI program my basslines & drum parts exactly as I want it with using a mouse. Everything else, it's all keyboard from there (leads, pads, etc.).

[J.C.R.]

for me it's cubase

[Lunatique]

..can you not just admit your music, and needs, are simple?

Maybe on a cold day in hell.

[softsynth]

FL Studio. Period.
Nothing beats the speed of its' workflow.
I tried nearly every host in existence,but I always keep coming back to FL Studio.Nothing ever comes close to FL.
I don't like/use the step sequencer,but I love the piano roll. <3

Tired of double-clicking to draw a note (as in eXT),or click-and-drag to draw a note (as in REAPER).
And Cubase is,uhh...even worse