Cubase 4 - full of bugs?
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- KVRer
- 27 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
Strangely unable to post a postive vote here in the poll. Cubase 4 is a welcome and stable update. Looking at the threads here and on Cubase.net I would say they appear to be equally informed/ill-informed!!!
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 31 Dec, 2005
Does time stretching work in C4??????????? On the cubase " workaround list" it said clicks appeared after using Mpex 3 on small gaps. This is the same bug that's been thier since version 2! Actually the C4 workaround list looks the same as the sx 3 one did. Does audio quantize move random events +/- a couple of samples like sx 3 did? Are the disk spikes gone??? I am not trying to rag on C4 but I need to know if they can even fix those bugs before I move on.. Please help..
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- KVRian
- 1325 posts since 6 Mar, 2001 from London, UK
You can always tell when the borg has unleashed a REAL pile of crap on the market: the Cutebugs.net fanbois start telling people who ask for product support to shut the f**k up complaining. Not only does it fail at its own level, it tells every prospective purchaser to run away screaming. With fanz like these bois who needs enemies?
The really gobsmacking revelation on Cutebugs.net however was the guy who went to AES to ask Yamaberg about the DX fiasco. He spoke to Yamaha's head of market strategy and the guy not only clearly did not understand the product, its licensing model or the scale of anger raged against it, but also the solution he offered - 'let them use SX3' - will probably be the funeral march for Steinborg.
That's what's really shocking about the C$ launch disaster - the revelation that the supposedly great supposedly technical strategy behind shafting 40% of its existing user base has absolutely nobody in the driving seat. Mr Sensible is not at home. Instead a picture is painted of belligerently obstinate iconoclastic decision making from a corporate (Yamaha, which historically has had no understanding of the audio soft market at all) articulated by a man who has much more important powered monitors to talk press releases about. And after all, his company will make more money from one model of the monitor range in a month than it will from Cutebugs in a whole year.
But that scale of detail ignorance could do for La Borg. The DX thing, well that's just nasty, cheap and dishonest. So what else is new from Steinborg? Well it's the combination of that - dumping DX - at the same time as dumping VST 2.3, when almost no vendor has a 2.4 offering, let alone VST 3.0. Angus from FXpansion already spoke for a lot of devs when he expressed his lack of enthusiasm for recoding yet another plugin interface standard for a marginal market.
Thing is, 'let them use SX3' takes the sting out of embracing VST 3.0 for the whole dev community. What's the big rush? Who needs to be first? Heck lets see how many people really need the new standard supporting, after all, if there are significantly more upgraders than new users, there's no REAL money in providing an already-own-it-in-SX3 user with a C$ version - upgrade dollars at best. And then again, if owners have to use SX3 for DX and a few other people's plugs too, then why not wait for the market to mature? One day the new plug will come, maybe, but C$ users? Hey what are you whining about fanboi, shut the f**k up.
And a careful reading of the launch blurb makes it very clear that the Bonzai Borg intends slamming the pedal to metal as hard as they can making VST3 harder, faster, better, richer, wider, more shiny, different and special as fast and as often as they possibly can. If that process forces a few more existing users into owning faulty or useless VST2 plugs, well let them use SX3, and hey shut the f**k up, fanboi.
Only problem is, half a year of this could easily turn Cutebugs 4 into Plugin Hell From The Black Lagoon, and Steiny won't be able to tell true adopters from the half-and-halfers or from "buying it for SX3 and shutting the f**k up". If the complainers actually do shut the f**k up - because they aren't bothering anymore just using SX3 - Steinberg will have forked its own market because Yamaha can't say sorry. You can shaft DX or you can shaft VST2.3, but not both at the same time. Both is fatal. Both is very, very fatal.
The really gobsmacking revelation on Cutebugs.net however was the guy who went to AES to ask Yamaberg about the DX fiasco. He spoke to Yamaha's head of market strategy and the guy not only clearly did not understand the product, its licensing model or the scale of anger raged against it, but also the solution he offered - 'let them use SX3' - will probably be the funeral march for Steinborg.
That's what's really shocking about the C$ launch disaster - the revelation that the supposedly great supposedly technical strategy behind shafting 40% of its existing user base has absolutely nobody in the driving seat. Mr Sensible is not at home. Instead a picture is painted of belligerently obstinate iconoclastic decision making from a corporate (Yamaha, which historically has had no understanding of the audio soft market at all) articulated by a man who has much more important powered monitors to talk press releases about. And after all, his company will make more money from one model of the monitor range in a month than it will from Cutebugs in a whole year.
But that scale of detail ignorance could do for La Borg. The DX thing, well that's just nasty, cheap and dishonest. So what else is new from Steinborg? Well it's the combination of that - dumping DX - at the same time as dumping VST 2.3, when almost no vendor has a 2.4 offering, let alone VST 3.0. Angus from FXpansion already spoke for a lot of devs when he expressed his lack of enthusiasm for recoding yet another plugin interface standard for a marginal market.
Thing is, 'let them use SX3' takes the sting out of embracing VST 3.0 for the whole dev community. What's the big rush? Who needs to be first? Heck lets see how many people really need the new standard supporting, after all, if there are significantly more upgraders than new users, there's no REAL money in providing an already-own-it-in-SX3 user with a C$ version - upgrade dollars at best. And then again, if owners have to use SX3 for DX and a few other people's plugs too, then why not wait for the market to mature? One day the new plug will come, maybe, but C$ users? Hey what are you whining about fanboi, shut the f**k up.
And a careful reading of the launch blurb makes it very clear that the Bonzai Borg intends slamming the pedal to metal as hard as they can making VST3 harder, faster, better, richer, wider, more shiny, different and special as fast and as often as they possibly can. If that process forces a few more existing users into owning faulty or useless VST2 plugs, well let them use SX3, and hey shut the f**k up, fanboi.
Only problem is, half a year of this could easily turn Cutebugs 4 into Plugin Hell From The Black Lagoon, and Steiny won't be able to tell true adopters from the half-and-halfers or from "buying it for SX3 and shutting the f**k up". If the complainers actually do shut the f**k up - because they aren't bothering anymore just using SX3 - Steinberg will have forked its own market because Yamaha can't say sorry. You can shaft DX or you can shaft VST2.3, but not both at the same time. Both is fatal. Both is very, very fatal.
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- KVRAF
- 3125 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia
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- Banned
- 1149 posts since 7 Mar, 2004
Seriously Hanafih, do you read your posts before submiting?
DX was never fully supported by CUBASE... did you ever run HALion DXi on Cubase?
IMO if SX1 was realesead today with PDC would still be the most usefull and fun DW to use, with C4 Steinberg bring back fun into making music... again!
For were i stand the most noise is made by non Cubase users like yourself... why? desperation... host envy?
BTW you are misquoting Angus... he said he hoped less standarts to support, didn't said thar VST3 was the one to ditch... well, it seems Steinberg did him a favor by dumping one of them... also in the words of another developer VST3 and DX will not run well together on the same host, not to mention that all DX will have to be recompiled to run on Vista, so unless devs are not interested on supporting Cubase i don't see why they should not update DX to VST3 specs.
I think this was debated ad nausea at KVR and many other places you choose to bring up the DX subject on threads that have nothing to do with it making it seem as a new debate, which is not.
Back on topic: Disk spikes were noticed on SX 3.1.933, 2 weeks later,after being alerted by the user base at C.Net, Steinberg released 3.1.944 patch that fixed it. Mpex2 has 4 modes on Cubase, i use polyphonic and never noticed anything.
DX was never fully supported by CUBASE... did you ever run HALion DXi on Cubase?
IMO if SX1 was realesead today with PDC would still be the most usefull and fun DW to use, with C4 Steinberg bring back fun into making music... again!
For were i stand the most noise is made by non Cubase users like yourself... why? desperation... host envy?
BTW you are misquoting Angus... he said he hoped less standarts to support, didn't said thar VST3 was the one to ditch... well, it seems Steinberg did him a favor by dumping one of them... also in the words of another developer VST3 and DX will not run well together on the same host, not to mention that all DX will have to be recompiled to run on Vista, so unless devs are not interested on supporting Cubase i don't see why they should not update DX to VST3 specs.
I think this was debated ad nausea at KVR and many other places you choose to bring up the DX subject on threads that have nothing to do with it making it seem as a new debate, which is not.
Back on topic: Disk spikes were noticed on SX 3.1.933, 2 weeks later,after being alerted by the user base at C.Net, Steinberg released 3.1.944 patch that fixed it. Mpex2 has 4 modes on Cubase, i use polyphonic and never noticed anything.
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- KVRAF
- 4735 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from London, UK
Of course he didn't. HALion DXi was released as an attempt to sell HALion to Sonar users, a) before they all had VST adapters, and b) because HALion's interpretation of the VST standard meant it didn't work all that well with VST-DXi.. or indeed with most non-Steinberg VST hosts.Seriously Hanafih, do you read your posts before submiting?
DX was never fully supported by CUBASE... did you ever run HALion DXi on Cubase?
I can't possibly say that VST3 is the one to ditch, because us third party developers won't even get to look at it until next year!BTW you are misquoting Angus... he said he hoped less standarts to support, didn't said thar VST3 was the one to ditch.
However, given that they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with 2.4, and they haven't shown any signs of taking the dev community's input on board since then, I'm not optimistic about it.
Such a shame.. VST 2.0 thru 2.3 was leagues ahead of AU, DXi and RTAS. DXi is dead; AU will always be on the margins as it only works on Macs; RTAS, despite being closed and proprietary, is gaining features rapidly but in a manageable way, has great developer support, and committed, knowledgeable engineers who actually listen to the developer community and understand what's needed.
Nobody knows, because nobody outside of Steinberg and, I'm guessing, Virsyn, has actually seen VST3... well, it seems Steinberg did him a favor by dumping one of them... also in the words of another developer VST3 and DX will not run well together on the same host
However, it's really a bit unlikely.. there is generally nothing 'special' about DX that prevents it from working fine alongside other plugin formats.
Not true, period.not to mention that all DX will have to be recompiled to run on Vista,
Yes, DX is old, ugly and probably doesn't have a long development future.. but pretty dumb of them to drop it at this point when they already had a well-isolated, debugged, working implementation.
This account is dormant, I am no longer employed by FXpansion / ROLI.
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- KVRian
- 713 posts since 1 Jul, 2002 from Haarlem
I'm getting a bit curious to as how this wil progress. I'm surprised about the lack of developers contact.
I still am looking forward to the arrival of my copy of C4, that I expect next week. Mainly for the fx-drag-and-drop-feature, which almost made me switch to Sonar.
After reading the last few post, I only hope I don't have many plugs that don't work in C4 anymore.
I still am looking forward to the arrival of my copy of C4, that I expect next week. Mainly for the fx-drag-and-drop-feature, which almost made me switch to Sonar.
After reading the last few post, I only hope I don't have many plugs that don't work in C4 anymore.
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- Banned
- 1149 posts since 7 Mar, 2004
@Angus:
Thank you for the corrections.
I didn't came up myself with the alledged issues bettwen DX and VST3. At Nuendo.com a developer brougth up that theory.
I guess VST spec has been updated since it came out, most probably further developmment is planned, while DX seems to be an old standart. That migth arise some questions to Steinberg which answers are not up to them.
Since VST is their own format, which functions rather well, it's natural they don't want compromise their own anymore by supporting a technology that's not their... I guess.
BTW some have mentioned, at C.Net, FXPansion has a probable developer of a working DX\VST wraper. Is it too soon to talk about this?
Thank you for the corrections.
I didn't came up myself with the alledged issues bettwen DX and VST3. At Nuendo.com a developer brougth up that theory.
I guess VST spec has been updated since it came out, most probably further developmment is planned, while DX seems to be an old standart. That migth arise some questions to Steinberg which answers are not up to them.
Since VST is their own format, which functions rather well, it's natural they don't want compromise their own anymore by supporting a technology that's not their... I guess.
BTW some have mentioned, at C.Net, FXPansion has a probable developer of a working DX\VST wraper. Is it too soon to talk about this?
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRAF
- 4735 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from London, UK
A DX to VST adapter would not solve the problem of old sessions not restoring their plug-ins and settings, which from what I can see is the main thing that's a problem here.
As to updating older plugins to VST3... we won't know until VST3 is made public, which according to Steinberg's own schedule could be as late as March 2007.
As to updating older plugins to VST3... we won't know until VST3 is made public, which according to Steinberg's own schedule could be as late as March 2007.
This account is dormant, I am no longer employed by FXpansion / ROLI.
Find me on LinkedIn or elsewhere if you need to get in touch.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 4735 posts since 18 Jul, 2002 from London, UK
Yep, 'cept that most DX plugs never had automation support, it was only added around the time of DX8.0, by which time many/most of the companies doing DX had already either given up or released VST versions. No wrapper could fix that.
This account is dormant, I am no longer employed by FXpansion / ROLI.
Find me on LinkedIn or elsewhere if you need to get in touch.
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- KVRian
- 763 posts since 30 Nov, 2000 from Vienna, Austria
Actually I haven't seen that many reports of plugs not working in Cubase 4 (esp. on PC), many more just seem to get worked up 'in advance' without feeling any impact whatsoever. (I would appreciate information on any plugs not working on the PC version, though)
Of course I recognize the problem for developers to support yet another standard - the open VST standard has existed long before other companies decided to create their own, much less generally usable. Plus VST3 seems to offer a number of benefits over VST2.x so for the users it should be a step ahead once generally adopted.
Hanafih, I think you ought to see a doctor about this Cubase-problem of yours - whenever Cubase is the topic you go through the roof, while I've seen quite constructive posts from you in other discussions...
Cheers, Jo
Of course I recognize the problem for developers to support yet another standard - the open VST standard has existed long before other companies decided to create their own, much less generally usable. Plus VST3 seems to offer a number of benefits over VST2.x so for the users it should be a step ahead once generally adopted.
Hanafih, I think you ought to see a doctor about this Cubase-problem of yours - whenever Cubase is the topic you go through the roof, while I've seen quite constructive posts from you in other discussions...
Cheers, Jo
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 7317 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
w00t... lets moan about not having a Microsoft propriety being supported!!! w00t! w00t!
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