why waves plugins cost that dam much ? i dont get it

[hibidy]

but now, a much more hateful word "faggot/fag" is used consistantly (certainly not just this thread)

what's up with that?

Progress?

Yeah, but I just think it's kinda wierd........[/quote]
Yeah, well... I'm just making a joke. [/quote]

I got that, I thought my comeback was kind clever/funny..........

oh well.......

[Amberience]

No you don't and I can't believe you actually think you do! You've been brainwashed pal.

10 years ago, perhaps Waves were cutting edge. The only reason they are even still going today is because people like yourself are so convinced of their superiority.

If all Waves users tried out a bunch of freeware and cheaper alternatives in their professional studios for even a year, Waves would go bankrupt.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

No you don't and I can't believe you actually think you do! You've been brainwashed pal.

10 years ago, perhaps Waves were cutting edge. The only reason they are even still going today is because people like yourself are so convinced of their superiority.

If all Waves users tried out a bunch of freeware and cheaper alternatives in their professional studios for even a year, Waves would go bankrupt.

No, I'm not convinced of their superiority. I say that they have been on the market since a long time. There are free alternatives, if you are a bedroom producer you'll like them, but if you are a big facility you need something reliable, both for support and for quality. And a company on the market since 1992 is reliable, it is something to invest on. It's like pro-tools. Avid doesn't give you the best sequencer possible (for every feature), but for an expensive investment they are reliable enought.

[Amberience]

Reliability is overated then.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

Reliability is overated then.

in my opinion, if you think they are too expensive simply dont buy them...If too many people dont buy them Waves will decrease prices and so on.

[beej]

I must say I do get a little tired of the "If you own or like a Waves plugin you are obviously stupid" mentality here (I'm a Mac user too, which together must make me a KvR village idiot )

Are there good alternatives to Waves stuff? Sure.

Personally, I like the fact that the plugins are cross platform, have a functional, consistent and well-designed gui, work well for the tasks I need, don't over-complicate things, have a good processor footprint, and have good support. Plus, for the plugins I especially like, I haven't found a good, professional, reasonably priced, cross platform alternative that offers me the sound I want. Personally, I probably wouldn't buy one of the larger bundles even if I had the money, but the few I own, and a few of the ones I'd quite like are great products.

There are things I don't like about Waves and their policies, but the quality of their products isn't one of them.

If you're politically against Waves, dongles, "large" corporate business practices or any of the other KvR hot potatoes I understand, just don't tell me I'm stupid when I don't share your opinion...

They are tools. Use what works for you, and what ticks your own personal utility/cost value system. If all the freely available stuff works for you, and you wouldn't dream of spending money on commercial software, great! If not, and you'd rather spend some money on quality commercial products, that's great too - and you still have the option on using free stuff if you want to supplement your purchases. If you'd like a particular Waves product but can't justify the price tag, then look for an alternative that you can afford.

I mean, we've never had it so good, software and audio tools have never been so cheap, and, although I'm very comfortable with modern tools, I still remember growing up in the ZX81 era, and saving up an entire year to buy a cheap shitty drum machine with 7 12-bit samples.

Lighten up, and go make some choons, fellas!

[The Spark]

For $7500 Id buy some quality outboard and use the freeware /less expensive plugs to round out the rest.

I know the outboard will keep its value and never be outdated. I cant say the same for plugs. Outboard never asks you to pay for software upgrades to work with a new OS either...

[james0tucson]

The thing about Waves is that any plugin is only as good as its algorithm. Waves plugins just plain sound good.

The real argument is not whether they sound good. It's whether they sound $700 better than Blockfish.

The real argument is whether they make any sound at all, relative to the whoosh of a $300,000 contract walking out the door because your studio is not equipped with the specified tools.

Not everyone lives in that world you're describing. And not everyone in that world thinks the same as you either. That just isn't plausible.

But that's the world where TDM and Waves are being marketed, period.

I mean... I don't quite believe that we've come so far in such a short space of time.. surely even some of the "professionals" still value creativity and risk?

Of course they do, but they also value guaranteed interoperability at the project level. I'm not saying this is an especially insightful approach, or even the best approach. But if you specify the details of the tools you can farm out work to different shops without worrying about what "creativity and innovation" some contractor happened to use.

That market is still large enough to justify the prices of stuff like TDM kit and Waves plugins. An amateur musician with his own skunkworks studio needs this stuff like a guy with a VW needs the same MAC Tools contract that the BMW dealership gets. (Are those tools *really* that much better than consumer tools? NO! But it still makes sense for an automotive shop.)

[chrismuktar]

Some of the waves plugins are mind-blowing. The restoration de-noiser or whatever is a gem. The EQ's are surgical, some of the effects mental. They are professional plugins, but cost a lot less than professional equipment. They aren't really for non-professional use. Most require a skilled hand and some experience to get the most out of.

I would say that some of the waves plugs are among the best in their league (for the price, so they should be). I would say that they are not everything to everyone, e.g. for compression I tend to use nomad's bluetubes, which I find produces a much warmer and less over-produced sound.

I do like the waves stuff but I wouldn't go so far as to call it essential.

[emdot_ambient]

They obviously price their stuff for bundle purchases. I bought their Rennaisance bundle in 2004 and if you divided up the cost it only came to like $65 per plug-in, which is far from outrageous.

That being said, I almost never use the stuff. Their quality is good, but I've found other freebies I like as well that are easier to use.

Come to think of it, I don't even have their plug-ins installed at the moment.

So if you think they're overpriced . . . just don't buy them. No need getting your shorts all up in a tangle over it. You can live without them.

[bleebsen]

I don't know if this is waves "fault", but my sound has improved considerably after I stopped using waves plugins (stopped working at a particular studio). I had better results with voxengo plugins, let alone the UADs I'm relying on now.

Only thing I miss sometimes is the renaissance compressor (which does a special thing on hihats if set to fastest settings).

So I'd go with "overrated" - but in the digital, virtual world sometimes the price dictates the value. "Intel CPUs are more expensive than AMDs, so they must be more reliable"-kind of thinking...

At least I'm very positive that you don't miss out on much if you cannot afford waves.

$0,02 bleeb

[maxhodges1]

As I understand it, Waves Z-Noise noise reduction algorithms and tools are unparalled. If you can't do a retake and all you have is a recording that needs a lot of tedious noise removal and reduction, you won't find another tool that compares, period. I do field recordings and interviews which can't practically be recorded again.

I'm less familiar with their other products, but based on Z-Noise I'm skeptical that they compare with free vsts. Most of the free vsts I've found sound like crap. Maybe good onces are out there, but I haven't found them (please tell me which ones are good!)

So if your ear can't tell a difference, you'd be wasting your money I guess. Proof is in the pudding.

Finally, if you know of a free vst that is comparable to a Waves product, please let us know which Waves product and which free VST. Then we can compare and decide if we'd be wasting our money on Waves, or if own ears tell us that we wouldn't be.

[herodotus]

The thing about Waves is that any plugin is only as good as its algorithm. Waves plugins just plain sound good.

The real argument is not whether they sound good. It's whether they sound $700 better than Blockfish.

The real argument is whether they make any sound at all, relative to the whoosh of a $300,000 contract walking out the door because your studio is not equipped with the specified tools.

Are there really people who would walk out of a studio that they were going to use because they found out said studio doesn't use Waves plugins?

RICH CLIENT: OK, lets get to work. But first, I have to make sure, do you use Waves plugins, or do you use some undependable off brand??

EXPENSIVE STUDIO OWNER: (confused) Well, we used to use them, but we found that there were alternatives that we prefer, so we stopped upgrading our license and....

RICH CLIENT: Bruno! Pack up! We don't want to deal with these people! They are clearly a fly by night operation!

EXPENSIVE STUDIO OWNER: (shocked) But we have a $500,000 Mike cabinet, and 3 of every piece of gear ever made by Manley, and Lavrey converters, and a real live vintage Fairchild 670, and a Neve Board, and...

RICH CLIENT: (Leaving) So?


Somehow, this seems unlikely.

[bleebsen]

I'm less familiar with their other products, but based on Z-Noise I'm skeptical that they compare with free vsts. Most of the free vsts I've found sound like crap. Maybe good onces are out there, but I haven't found them (please tell me which ones are good!)

Hmm, don't know about Z-Noise, but it's predecessor X-Noise was a "simple" multiband expander. To my knowledge all modern (commercial) denoisers work like this. So i doubt there could be too a huge difference anyway?

Have you tried Voxengo's redunoise? Same principle as far as I can tell.

But if YOU are happy with your tools that's great - no matter what the geeks tell .

[james0tucson]

Are there really people who would walk out of a studio that they were going to use because they found out said studio doesn't use Waves plugins?

There are contracts that specify, among other things, TDM.

People who farm out production work want legally solid assurances that they can work with the material, that is, send it to someone else -- In other words, easily fire you and not be hung out to dry because of your processes.

Somehow, this seems unlikely.

In a contract situation *everything* is stipulated down to the last detail.