how do you write?

[Stupid American Pig]

I wrote a tune today during lunch by ripping apart a song I wrote a few years ago and figuring out a better melody and rhythm for it. Then I took my trusty micro cassette recorder and played it on my piano so I could remember it later. I then sketched out the chord progression on paper and started writing words that fit the melody. Now I gotta figger out what kind of sound I want it to have and record/produce it.

[Ildon]

Nobody has mentioned whether they are writing for themselves or others. I write only for myself, so the accumulation of wav files that don't work together only frustrates me. I wouldn't get even this far if I thought anyone else was going to hear this stuff.

I do both. A lot of the time it's one in the same for me. People give me something to write about... it's really neat and it inspires me most of the time... other times it's veeeery frustrating, especially when someone says... "you have all the freedom in the world" and then you give them something and they say, "this isn't what I want."

Piss off.

That's what I feel like saying sometimes.

[ugo]

keep the info coming folks. its cool to hear other people's approach to composition.

now and then we are both on AIM at the same time and decide to hvae a "record-off" in which we set aside the next 2 hours to each record a new song. when the time's up, we both mixdown what we have and exchange our MP3s for review/critique/enjoyment.

what i like about this approach is there's a deadline; lock the door, turn off the phone, unplug the ethernet cable, pack up the bong and get going). the deadline really helps capture more raw, human takes since there's little time for getting that guitar part spot on, etc.

that is a very good idea.
...now i need to find someone to do record-off's with.

Nobody has mentioned whether they are writing for themselves or others. I write only for myself, so the accumulation of wav files that don't work together only frustrates me. I wouldn't get even this far if I thought anyone else was going to hear this stuff.

im usually just writing for myself, though i post what little i finish to my site and/or here. i've done some writing for my father, for some of his movies, and that forced me to get more done within a shorter period of time. (though it created other problems too, but thats another story.)

I wrote a tune today during lunch by ripping apart a song I wrote a few years ago and figuring out a better melody and rhythm for it.

i havent tried to remake one of my songs in many years. if i manged to complete a track the first time around, i usually think of it from that point on as being "done" so i almost never return to it afterwards to see if can make it better.

i also never go back to unfinished attempts. in some cases i just cant seem to get back into the vibe i was in at the time. but more often, the reason i dont go back to unfinished songs is that i unfortunately have the tendency to view them as "failed" attemps, and therefore not worth persuing and better to just move on. i know this is an unreasonable and unfair way to view those ideas, but i still get that feeling.

i usually delete all my unfinished sequences every 6 months or so, but i havent done a cleaning in a long time. i should probably spend some time going back over them and at least making loops out of the better parts, and see if i can view them as new fodder for liveslice, rather than failed song parts.

[Freeform]

It depends on the track. Some nights I'll just be relaxed and pull an entire track out of nowhere, other times I like to actually work on it at certain times when I feel like it. It's completely random inspiration for me. I generally start with accompaniment, being that in my opinion - if the accompaniment is good accompaniment, it will meld with the melody perfectly, and if you write the melody to go with the accompaniment then they compliment eachother on a very balanced level. This isn't always the case However, some days I will just lay down a single reverb drenched sweepy string to create a little world where I can play. I often find myself using atmospherics to get inspired. It makes you suddenly feel like you are somewhere new, like a new world, and you get to create little crazy noises and associate them with creatures/events/whatever you choose to in your head. That's really where alot of the magic happens imo, but this is from a very creative angle as well. Some people simply learn production techniques and want to make something that sounds record pressable. The definitive answer is ultimately that there is no definitive answer for all individuals. Some people write because they love it, some write for status, and you can hear it in their tracks (some BAD records out there), others write just because they have been blessed with insane talent (BT), and others write as something of a creative outlet that keeps them sane....*shuffles his feet*. As far as chord progression, I believe this follows a similar logic. You have your book taught people, you have your naturals, and you have those who know both ends. For me personally, I learned chords by ear,and studied the theory secondly because I felt I may feel confined pre-limiting my musical range with rules, laws, and such, but I must remember it's called music THEORY. Ultimately this worked better for me personally because I developed my own weird rules that give me a unique sound, but that is never to say that if you took theory first you would not arrive at the same place. It was just easier for me personally. I can't emphasize enough what the ultimate message of what I am trying to convey is... Just trust your (dare I say it?) soul's judgement of what's inside of you creatively, and never feel trapped in a musical technique, method, process, or theory cage. Listen to all other's advice, but never forget that ultimately it's up to your personal judgement to use something. Some people may tell you "EQ bass at 120 hz always and it sounds great". Try this out for yourself on one of your tracks, and if it works, then you have gained knowledge, and if not, then you have gained knowledge. Experiment to your heart's wildest content and learn as much as you can and share with others. Make sounds that stir your own imagination. The moment the music you write astonishes even you is where it's at imo.

[Ildon]

That reminds me. Did you ever get out of your rut, ugo? I remember a while back you said you hadn't written anything in a really long time.

[metal adidas]

do you have a particular process to your song writing? if so, can you describe it?
well first off usually ill just have that feeling, sometimes in the middle of the night ill just start putting a beat together in my head.. and think, damn that sounds hot, i better put this together before i forget about it. and then i go to FL studio and usually make the whole song. then if it doesnt sound right ill just find something to change it, or just save it for later and later on ill have that feeling again and add onto it and make it better.

do you focus on a lot of details as you go along, or try to get the general structure down first?
usually i get the main part down first, and get it perfect, cause without that youll just have a bunch of shit. so iget that done, then add onto it.

do you tend to write with an idea or style already in mind, or do you just start working and see what comes out?
usually i have it already ib my head. i dont make beats without having a feeling exactly how i want it, to where i know its bangin. but sometimes if one of my buyers wants me to make a certain beat ill work on it and usually just go as i go.

do you often get started, only to find yourself stuck after 8-16 bars? if so, do you have any tips/tricks on getting past that?
not really, if this ever happens ill just put a normal beat for example when im doing the base or main beat of a song and i cant think of it right, ill just put a usual base line and then fix it around untill it sounds the way i want it.

do you start with drums/rhythms or with melodic instruments?
drums and rhythm first, since i do RAP beats, and thats pretty much all it is.

are there particular types of sounds that you find you start/build your songs from the most often? (eg: start with pads, or leads, then grow the song from there, etc.)
nah just start with a beat, the usual clap or snap, or if its a crunk song ill put some hard snare in it, and then have an original cymbal beat going on, and then i build onto that with the melody etc.

of course thats not the whole song ill usually put an intro to the song to make it sound good and other stuff.

do you think more in terms of layered single note sequences, or chord progressions?

anything else about your songwriting process you'd like to mention?
i dunno sometimes itll tkae me months to finish a piece. usually ill just either get it right away, or just save the beat and keep it sitting there till i want to finish it. i have about 30 incomplete beats just waiting for me to finish, but every1 goes through that. once i put them together though i find out damn thats a hot beat, so always look over your unfinished stuff because usually youll find out its a good beat just needs a little touching up.

[eduardo_b]

Nobody has mentioned whether they are writing for themselves or others. I write only for myself, so the accumulation of wav files that don't work together only frustrates me. I wouldn't get even this far if I thought anyone else was going to hear this stuff.

I do both. A lot of the time it's one in the same for me. People give me something to write about... it's really neat and it inspires me most of the time... other times it's veeeery frustrating, especially when someone says... "you have all the freedom in the world" and then you give them something and they say, "this isn't what I want."

Piss off.

That's what I feel like saying sometimes.

Well, when I was quite young I was totally into photography and was told that I had the talent to do it professionally. But I'd read lots of stories by professionals about their work, and simply knew I would only be happy shooting for myself, not for clients -- who as often as not are wrong in their choices.

I could never do music for a living, so, for me, having all the freedom in the world means doing it for fun. But, I write and edit professionally, and am not intimidated doing this, so I suppose it really is about one's comfort zone.

[funky lime]

that is a very good idea.
...now i need to find someone to do record-off's with.

aim sn: thefunkylime

[rp314]

The elements can't be simplistically torn apart but a rough attempt at it might go like this:

Inspiration is generally about an idea, a motive, a chord progression that is (or are) pleasing, interesting, or whatever you want to call it.

Composing is the stuff in between: the craft. That's what education and experience can help make more effective, both in time and effort.

If you find yourself not having interesting ideas, well....

OTOH, if you find yourself not being able to develop the interesting ideas that come your way, then it may help to work on your composition skills by getting some educational assistance or working on exercises that are meant to achieve that goal.

As others have pointed out, one's method is dependent on the project. Sometimes an idea is very fertile. Other times there's need of a lot of work and prayer for conception to take place. In Vitro Composition, so to speak.

[ugo]

freeform...good post.

That reminds me. Did you ever get out of your rut, ugo? I remember a while back you said you hadn't written anything in a really long time.

nope, im still not out of it.
in march i wrote a cool track that was quite different from my usual. that made me hopeful. in april i worked on a collaboration with :10: that turned out very well. (though i still credit the vast majority of that song to him.)

after that...nothing.

i've spent most of the year buried in synthedit projects. every time i would try to test my musical waters again, i'd find them to still be stagnant. so i'd just tell myself "well i've got a lot of work to do in SE, so i'll just go back to that." thus avoiding the issue.

now that my major SE projects are out of the way, and i bought myself a great new computer and audio interface, i want to spend some more time working on music again. a few weeks ago, i had a whole week off from work and i scheduled it so that the computer would be ready in time. i did try to work on music during that week but most attempts were not coming together.

by the end of the week, i finally found myself onto a track. it was actually coming together and in fact that i even wrote lyrics for it...the first lyrics i had written in probably 10 years. unfortunately the track itself has an 80's cheeze about it that i havent been able to get rid of. its really a large part of the core of the song. strangely, its not even really in a style i ever listend much too. i havent been able to get my voice to a point where i can get a good vocal track down yet either.

i will keep working on it because, if nothing else, it is a nearly complete song with lyrics, and it will be a good experiment to try to get myself to sing again. however, the fact of the matter is that this song may have come out the way it did...but its not where i feel i want to go.

i do have at least some vague ideas on a new musical direction, but they are still so vague and foggy that i have not been able to get a grip on them and say "yes, this is where im going now"...or even as much as "if i stumble blindly in this direction, i should end up someplace interesting."

its mighty frustrating.

If you find yourself not having interesting ideas, well....

sadly, i feel that is the case. i have neither clear ideas nor a solid direction. from a muscial/stylistic stand point, i've been drifting aimlessly for a very long time. ...for years, really. eventually the old standbys that could occasionally get a track out of me, inspite of aimlessness, have worn out to the point were i am completely sick of hearing them...but i have no clear ideas on what to replace fill that creative/inspirational void with.

i feel a few ideas brewing, but i know i've said that for years now too and they still havent grown into anything, so i may still be just fooling myself there.

aim sn: thefunkylime

im not on aim (or any messanger service) but i'll pm you and maybe we can work out a time and a way to set it up?

[eduardo_b]

sadly, i feel that is the case. i have neither clear ideas nor a solid direction. from a muscial/stylistic stand point, i've been drifting aimlessly for a very long time. ...for years, really. eventually the old standbys that could occasionally get a track out of me, inspite of aimlessness, have worn out to the point were i am completely sick of hearing them...but i have no clear ideas on what to replace fill that creative/inspirational void with.

What I find most interesting about this is that you actually create tools (your wonderful plug-ins) that are meant for creating music, yet you are plagued by this lack of creative vision or purpose. It's as if the yearn to be creative finds its way out through the plug-ins themselves, rather than the music you want to create.

Maybe you're just an 80s guy (musically) living in a hip-hop world? I envy people who know what they love and don't feel the need to apologize for it -- they're having too much fun. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Make your music yours and perhaps the direction will show up all by itself.

[Barf]

I dont really know what advice to give to you Ugo, I sort of have the same problem, I'm also having a 'dry season' but not as long as you i think. I bought a new soundcard some months ago thinking it would make me more productive again but it didnt. I finally started working on some songs a few weeks ago but i got fed up with it pretty soon. Its like i'm unable to enjoy the 'creative proces' as much as I used to. And like you said its pretty frustrating

[ugo]

What I find most interesting about this is that you actually create tools (your wonderful plug-ins) that are meant for creating music, yet you are plagued by this lack of creative vision or purpose.

ironic, isnt it?

It's as if the yearn to be creative finds its way out through the plug-ins themselves, rather than the music you want to create.

thankfully its not my creativity that has dried up, nor its ability to manifest itself through things music related. but when it comes to actually writing music, something is clearly clogging the proverbial pipes.

Maybe you're just an 80s guy (musically) living in a hip-hop world?

there is no doubt that growing up in the 80's had a major impact on my musical outlook. i have a lot of 80's influences. (and many, much bigger, influences from other decades too...like bowie, trent, or underworld.) and yet the majority of what i've been listening to for the last several years has been stuff released during the 90's and 00's. so its not as if my inspirations have only been 80's groups or 80's releases.

this track im involved with now is an odd one in that its not even a genre of the 80's that i ever was into. go figure. its too damn nice and harmless too. that bugs me as well.

I finally started working on some songs a few weeks ago but i got fed up with it pretty soon. Its like i'm unable to enjoy the 'creative proces' as much as I used to. And like you said its pretty frustrating

i when hear myself coming up with no new ideas and nothing new to say, i quickly loose patience with what im working on. that right there is probably a significat factor in my 8-16 bar block. by that point i can already hear that im not on to anything all that exciting.

[the_nihilist]

do you have a particular process to your song writing? if so, can you describe it?

Not really. I just get something in my head, and then mess around with it until it somehow resembles what my original idea was. Pretty much my sole ideal for writing music is to be able to translate the ideas in my head as accurately as possible into recorded form.

do you focus on a lot of details as you go along, or try to get the general structure down first?

I always focus on details first, trying to get a few bars down, and then building backwards and forwards as I feel needs to be done. A song will grow like a living thing, and then maybe eventually be finished.

do you tend to write with an idea or style already in mind, or do you just start working and see what comes out?

I don't think I'm really capable of writing anything that doesn't sound like me. I just know relatively what I've got in my head, and work around that. Writing jazz or a samba are beyond me, but I do really love counterpoint.

do you often get started, only to find yourself stuck after 8-16 bars? if so, do you have any tips/tricks on getting past that?

While I do have vigintillions of 8-16 bar loops, I've pretty much worked out a method of getting past that. The first is to not write loops -- that is, writing chord progressions and melodies that are longer than a few bars and are always adding something new or going somewhere. The second is that if I do have a loop, I mentally place it where I think it should go in the song (maybe about 1/2 way or 3/4 through) and work on building up the intro and song beforehand. The other things I find really helpful are to hum or sing out loud the kind of notes or harmony you've got in your head, and start writing those in.

I guess right now the only reason I have for not finishing songs is either running out of CPU power (damn this ancient comp) or not having enough time.

do you start with drums/rhythms or with melodic instruments?

Almost always with the melody. Starting with drums just makes me write loops, and I can never get the right feel unless I add them after the fact.

are there particular types of sounds that you find you start/build your songs from the most often? (eg: start with pads, or leads, then grow the song from there, etc.)

Whatever sound I have in my head at the moment. I'm lucky that I can almost always find a vst or combination of samples that can make it. Sometimes just experimenting with programming presets inspires something. Maybe just messing around with a sampled piano or wanting to see what it sounds like to samplemangle a sound.

do you think more in terms of layered single note sequences, or chord progressions?

Usually chord progressions, quite often in counterpoint. I like everything to match up harmonically, and don't usually use much more colorful than a seventh (after all, I'm not making jazz here). I like to think my chord progressions aren't terribly awkward, though I'm probably lying to myelf. Since the notes in my head are usually in minor keys, I sort of work around that, and arbitrarily pick a scale according to my mood. To experiment, I'll also play around with modality and odd time signatures, but my favorites are compound duple and compound triple.

anything else about your songwriting process you'd like to mention?

I can't write shit after I've drunk even one beer or smoked a joint. I have no idea how anyone does it.

[eduardo_b]

What I find most interesting about this is that you actually create tools (your wonderful plug-ins) that are meant for creating music, yet you are plagued by this lack of creative vision or purpose.

ironic, isnt it?

What is really ironic is that despite all the technology that brings the potential for making music to the rest of us, it's still the human involvement -- the creation of music itself -- that hasn't changed. In theory, it should be easier than ever to "write" music, but the tools themselves cannot replace the human touch of expression and emotion. That's both the good news and the not so good news.