Oatmeal skin discussion - What you think?

[grymmjack]

So I'm going to skin Oatmeal.

I want to make a skin worthy of the plugin, and that means lots of work and forethought and good planning and posts for each iteration of the design to make happy the most people possible.

What do you envision Oatmeal to be ideally?

My own thoughts; it's too small, it needs to be much larger. The interface is CHOCK FULL of controls and they need some room. I'm thinking if I can make it fit on a 800x600 display I'm happy (700x500 is the target).

I would like to make all envelope controls faders, and make obvious as much as possible how the Oatmeal works.

After reading the manual, I made the following notes:

Code: Select all

[SOUNDSOURCE]
1. OSCILLATOR 1
  waveform menu
  edit button
  pulse width knob
  pwm rate knob
  pwm depth knob
  amp knob
  vel/at->pitch knob
  detune knob

2. OSCILLATOR MIX
  oscmix knob
  vel/at->amp knob

3. OSCILLATOR 2
  waveform menu
  edit button
  pulse width knob
  pwm rate knob
  pwm depth knob
  amp knob
  vel/at->pitch knob
  detune knob
  transpose knob

4. NOISE GENERATOR
  amp knob
  vel/at->noise amp knob
  resonance knob
  transpose knob

5. FILTER
  filter type menu
  cutoff knob
  resonance knob
  x2 parallel switch
    split knob
    mix knob
    speed ratio knob
  keytrack knob
  vel/at->cutoff knob
  envelope mod knob
  vel->env mod knob

6. FILTER ENVELOPE
  attack knob
  hold knob
  decay1 knob
  breakpoint knob
  decay2 knob
  sustain knob
  release knob

7. AMP ENVELOPE
  attack knob
  hold knob
  decay1 knob
  breakpoint knob
  decay2 knob
  sustain knob
  release knob



[EFFECTS]
8. DISTORTION
  type menu
  mode menu:
    global
    per voice (post-filter)
    per voice (pre-filter)
    double    (x2 pre and post filter)
  oversampling switch
  pre-gain knob
  limit knob
  post-gain knob

9. CHORUS
  mode menu:
    sine
    ramp
    fm
  width menu:
    mono
    stereo 1
    stereo 2
  rate knob
  delay knob
  delay range knob
  feedback knob
  mix knob
  voices knob

10. DELAY
  on/off toggle switch
  unit menu
  quantize switch
  input pan knob
  feedback rotation knob
  dry knob
  wet knob
  left:
    length knob
    feedback knob
    reverse switch
  right:
    length knob
    feedback knob
    reverse switch
  delay filter:
    lowpass knob
    highpass knob

11. REVERB
  on/off toggle switch
  room size knob
  decay time knob
  pre-delay knob
  early reflections knob
  dullness knob
  brightness knob
  parameters:
    1 knob
    2 knob
    3 knob
    rotate knob
  dry knob
  wet knob

12. EQ
  band 1:
    switch: off, peak/notch, low/high shelf
    freq knob
    amp knob
    q knob
  band 2:
    switch: off, peak/notch, low/high shelf
    freq knob
    amp knob
    q knob
  band 3:
    switch: off, peak/notch, low/high shelf
    freq knob
    amp knob
    q knob
  band 4:
    switch: off, peak/notch, low/high shelf
    freq knob
    amp knob
    q knob
  band 5:
    switch: off, peak/notch, low/high shelf
    freq knob
    amp knob
    q knob



[MODULATION]
13. PITCH ENVELOPE
  on/off toggle switch
  start knob
  attack knob
  peak knob
  decay knob
  sustain knob
  release knob
  vel->mod depth knob

14. MODULATION ENVELOPE 1
  attack knob
  hold knob
  decay 1 knob
  breakpoint knob
  decay 2 knob
  sustain knob
  release knob
  modulation target depth knob
  modulation target menu
  vel->mod depth knob

14. MODULATION ENVELOPE 2
  attack knob
  hold knob
  decay 1 knob
  breakpoint knob
  decay 2 knob
  sustain knob
  release knob
  modulation target depth knob
  modulation target menu
  vel->mod depth knob

15. LFO 1
  shape menu:
    sine
    saw
    square
    triangle
    smooth random
    stepping random
    user
  edit shape button
  mode menu:
    global
    per voice
  quantize toggle switch
  rate unit menu
  rate knob
  lfo1->cutoff knob
  lfo1->cutoff (x2) knob
  lfo1->resonance knob
  lfo1->pitch knob
  lfo1->pan knob
  mod lfo2 rate knob

16. LFO 2
  shape menu:
    sine
    saw
    square
    triangle
    smooth random
    stepping random
    user
  edit shape button
  mode menu:
    global
    per voice
  quantize toggle switch
  rate unit menu
  rate knob
  lfo2->cutoff knob
  lfo2->cutoff (x2) knob
  lfo2->resonance knob
  lfo2->pitch knob
  lfo2->pan knob
  mod lfo1 rate knob

17. X|Y PAD
  crosshair pad area
  1:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  2:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  3:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  4:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  5:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  6:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  7:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  8:
    modulation target depth knob
    modulation target menu
  midi cc->x menu
  midi cc->y menu
  random:
    radius knob
    rate knob

18. ARPEGGIATOR
  16 pattern slots
  pattern length slider under slots
  pattern types (fit inside of slot):
    off
    up, wrap to lowest
    up, no wrap
    down, wrap to lowest
    down, no wrap
    continue
    continue direction wrap
    continue direction bounce
    return to previous
    return to previous and go up
    go to highest held note
    go to lowest held note
    randomly go up or down wrap
    randomly go up or down no wrap
    random any note
  mode menu:
    pattern (multi subsequence)
    pattern (one subsequence)
    chord pattern
    chord
    transposed chords
  slot unit menu
  quantize toggle switch
  slot step rate knob
  note seq:
    1 toggle switch
    1 note pitch
    2 toggle switch
    2 note pitch
    3 toggle switch
    3 note pitch
    4 toggle switch
    4 note pitch
    5 toggle switch
    5 note pitch
    6 toggle switch
    6 note pitch
    7 toggle switch
    7 note pitch



[MASTER]
19. MASTER
  output gain knob
  velocity sensitivity knob
  aftertouch mode menu:
    polyphonic
    monophonic
  max poly knob
  poly mode menu:
    polyphonic
    monophonic
    legato
  glide knob
  glide mode scale menu
  pitch bend range knob
  global transpose knob
  key follow->pan knob
  key follow->pitch env
  random panning/voice knob
  random frequency/voice knob
  random amp/voice knob
  phase:
    osc:
      retrigger toggle switch
      initial phase knob
      phase range knob
    PWM:
      retrigger toggle switch
      initial phase knob
      phase range knob
    LFO:
      retrigger toggle switch
      initial phase knob
      phase range knob
  tuning:
    tune knob
    octave knob
    key follow->filter cut ref
    key follow->pan ref
    note a pitch knob
    note b pitch knob
    note c pitch knob
    note d pitch knob
    note e pitch knob
    note f pitch knob
    note g pitch knob



[MIDI CONTROL]
  channels:
    channel 1 toggle switch
    channel 2 toggle switch
    channel 3 toggle switch
    channel 4 toggle switch
    channel 5 toggle switch
    channel 6 toggle switch
    channel 7 toggle switch
    channel 8 toggle switch
    channel 9 toggle switch
    channel 10 toggle switch
    channel 11 toggle switch
    channel 12 toggle switch
    channel 13 toggle switch
    channel 14 toggle switch
    channel 15 toggle switch
    channel 16 toggle switch
  sustain toggle switch
  velocity ramp box
  aftertouch ramp box
  cc control slot 1:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4
  cc control slot 2:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4
  cc control slot 3:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4
  cc control slot 4:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4
  cc control slot 5:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4
  cc control slot 6:
    cc number menu
    modulation depth knob 1
    modulation target knob 1
    modulation depth knob 2
    modulation target knob 2
    modulation depth knob 3
    modulation target knob 3
    modulation depth knob 4
    modulation target knob 4


[INTERFACE BUTTONS]
  about button
  skin button
  random button
  previous program button
  next program button
  panic button
  init patch button
  load bank button
  save bank button
  load patch button
  save patch button
  MIDI button
  MAIN button

I post here because the numbers prefixing the UPPERCASE areas of labels in each logical [BLOCK] are the planned flow. Not sure how to do it visually yet but I will mock it up in Visio...

The order is something I'm open to change, for instance the phase section in MASTER seems more appropriate in modulation? Dunno.

The focus I really want to go for here is usability and friendliness. The current skins are excellent in their own right but we can improve on the usability in a democratic fashion here on KVR - I love building UI's iteratively getting input from everyone because the goal is to pay back fuzpills by making his plug even more useful than it currently is.

Since I can't give back in any other way, this is my way to repay him. I keep my word.

So I hope to have this done before X-Mas.

Please let me know your thoughts and do not hold back or hesitate to post screenshots or pictures of things you like in other plugs, real hardware, etc.

I think it's possible to perhaps even make 2 separate skin projects, maybe one in the honor of gols style nice and compact and the other more spread out and usable.

The key is ease of use for a monster of such complexity

Thanks

Here is the most recent rendition of the UI:

[JamminFool]

thanks in advance for your work on this!

[apropos]

700x500? Have you lost it man? Isn't the original GUI something like 25x15?
Really though, I hate it when a plugin takes up most of my screen. I think the original size is usable (at least for another 30 or 40 years for me). I would definitely suggest not straying too far from the original... others will disagree undoubtedly though!

[sinkmusic]

I don't disagree.
I can be a little bit bigger, but not too much. I like small commpact GUI. Oatmeal was maybe a bit too far in that smallness obsession, but when the bigger alternative GUI came,; i kept the small one.
10% bigger, and it should be fine, but nothing too big, please (not as big as the ahahah cs30 for example, nice lookig, btw) !

The main thing is that the interface looks a bit bloated, with each section not so clearly separated (well, in fact, it is, and the routing scheme is visible on the interafce, but it took me some days to realize it !).

So about this first point, i think a little bigger is enough, and maybe focus more on a way to make the overall synth's architecture easier to read... ?

Thank you for creating this space for suggestions, and keeping sharing your work.

[DJ Flexstyle]

Just so long as I can USE all the buttons and knobs and such, I'm fine.

I downloaded it (and I love it, by the way), and I decided to use the bigger skin because the other one is so stinkin' tiny!

[SciFiArtMan]

It can be a little bit bigger, but not too much. I like small commpact GUI. Oatmeal was maybe a bit too far in that smallness obsession, but when the bigger alternative GUI came,; i kept the small one.

I agree with all these comments, of course. And there are some very fine skins out there for Oatmeal already. My biggest complaint is the unclear position markers on the knobs in most of these other attractive skins.

The original Oatmeal GUI was a bit too small, but the controls can be enlarged and clarified without making the GUI too much larger. The rule, as ALWAYS, is to keep the controls and labels as large and CLEAR as possible, but the overall footprint as small as is practically possible. And never too dark or light - functionality over form, all the way!!! Good luck!

EDIT - 700 x 500 sounds perfect.

[Ja.x]

Pentagon I is 819 * 585 and IMO has the right size. I have no reason to think that 700 * 500 is an oversized GUI; the current version is too small, and the 1st version was microscopic.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

700X500 isPerfect! i lookForwardToSeeingIt.
I don't see how that would be too big for anyone. Nobody is actually using 800x600 resolution, are they???? that would still leave about 30 pixels on each side after the taskbar and stuff but most people are at 1024X768 at very least; I mean, the current 'big' version isn't much smaller than 700 by 500, is it??

i say go for it!
I also think sliders are a good idea for all the env controls.

[.jon]

Thanks for the list, grymmjack.

I'm going for 640*480, but it'll be just something simple that goes together with my 3D-ish eXT skins.

**EDIT*** I surely meant 700*500.

[nitex]

I do prefer bigger GUIs myself, i'm running a screen resolution of 1280x1024, so your targeted size would be perfect i think, given the amount of controls Oatmeal has. Since i open the synth for tweaking only and close it after assigning parameters, i see no point in making it tiny. Looking forward to it.

[Atomsplitter]

Good luck rick im sure it will be amazing, i guess this means no free time for the next Atomsplitter Audio plug now though

[Scotty]

I'd say go with your instincts, keep the wasted space to the minimum around the knobs but make it sexy enough that you want to touch it. I really liked the UC33 skin for your last creation, something for the Behringer BCR2000 would be cool.

[Mighty Pea]

I think the included big GUI is a good size, although a little bit more separation wouldn't hurt. It sounds like you're really thinking this one through, and anything to make it easier to make sounds on Oatmeal is something i'm behind 100%
How's the 3d going? Did you end up getting Silo?

[grymmjack]

@atomsplitter; nah, well to be fair I have to keep my promises and you've got one complete one out of me already we will finish eventually the current project no worry.

@scott; I didn't do that UC33 version of the skin pethu did that one for the CS33, I did the dark regular one.

@jon; I look forward to all your work man, your eXT minimalist skin owns.

@pea; Ah no I sorta gave up on 3D for a bit because I was having difficulties mapping proper scale from photoshop -> 3D -> photoshop. I have a bitch of a time lining up the camera to be just right for the export. The workflow was ok; photoshop vector -> expoort as AI path -> import to 3D app -> texture/light -> export to photoshop, but I could never predictably get it from step 1 to step 6 with the same aspect ratio/precise pixel sizes, etc. I was using Wings3D and Blender (mainly Wings3D at the end) -- I'd like to learn to use it though it's very hip and would make animating controls much more realistic.

I think that 700x500 is actually too small and I'd prefer to do a 900x600 or something, but I do want to make it fit on 800x600 screens, I run 1280x1024 myself, and I haven't seen anyone running 800x600 since pre-2000 TBH, it was all 1024x768 or higher. Now with tech getting better and better and displays being so cheap XGA (1024x768) is pretty much the lowest res I even worry about. 800x600 is just good practice though, just in case.

Below I've created 3 images; 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024, which represent standard resolutions (some even go higher or have widescreen displays that deviate from the 4:3 stuff using 16:9 ratios but they aren't my target) -- within each of these images, the black square represents the 700x500 target for the UI.

http://www.asseca.com/designermonkey/kv ... 00x600.gif
http://www.asseca.com/designermonkey/kv ... 24x768.gif
http://www.asseca.com/designermonkey/kv ... 0x1024.gif

Roughly it looks like this (scaled down from actuals to 25% for illustration):



At 800x600 (the rarest scenario and the least amount of people), when centered the UI would still provide access to host window. There is 100 pixels of clickable area when centered, but the UI could be moved to provide up to 200 pixels of clicable area to reach the host and give it focus. For hosts that use "locked" UI's like T2, where the UI for the plug remains top-most this is large enough click target to swap focus to and back quickly.

At 1024x768 (probably the most common now) the plugin size is even more managable.

At 1280x1024 (very common too for newer machines with flat panels) the approximate scale is slightly larger than the same default oatmeal UI running on an 800x600.

A good balance I think.

Thanks for your replies and feedback, please keep them coming.

[laputa_sync]

http://www.asseca.com/designermonkey/kv ... 0x1024.gif

maybe add some controls...its nice but i like to have some control....