KVR Audio

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:51 am

I write a lot of breakbeat/big beat music, which, in my opinion, calls for "dead" and vintage-sounding drums. While I have stuff like Stylus RMX and Battery 3, those don't cut it. The bass drums need to have a sharp 'thud' that is well defined and not flabby. The snares need to 'thwap' sharply without ringing or buzzing - and so on and so forth. So far, of all the sample libraries I have, I've found eLab's "Smoker's Delight", "Obsession", and "Foundation" to be closest to what I want. However, I think there is better stuff out there. Gota Yashiki's "Groove Activator" is another fantastic CD but it has next to no content on it!

If you listen to lots of classic vinyl breakbeats, you'll hopefully know the sound I'm talking about. It's unlike almost anything you hear in the vast majority of drum libraries. For musical examples, check out certain songs by Pendulum (eg. Slam, Hold Your Colour, their Voodoo People remix), Prodigy (Serial Thriller, Narayan), and/or The Crystal Method (Over the Line, Ten Miles Back, Acetone).

In terms of format, I'm really looking for oneshot WAVs. Nothing else is as easy to work with.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I feel like every time I pick up a new drum sample CD I'm just throwing money away when I only really want this one kind of sound.

LOOPxDIGGA · Post by **LOOPxDIGGA** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:29 am

aye man....i kno what ya sayin....i want these programs ya speakin of...just cuz...

but, i know what ya sayin though..and i know of something that my boy has....Spectrasonics Stylus RMX...it isnt all one shots though...most of its loops, all chopped up...but it sounds like breakbeats..it does have a group of one shot stuff though...either way, most of it sounds like some breakbeat shit...should check it out ...i think they have like a 15 day demo on it...

leonard · Post by **leonard** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:38 am

LOOPxDIGGA wrote:aye man....i kno what ya sayin....i want these programs ya speakin of...just cuz...

but, i know what ya sayin though..and i know of something that my boy has....Spectrasonics Stylus RMX...it isnt all one shots though...most of its loops, all chopped up...but it sounds like breakbeats..it does have a group of one shot stuff though...either way, most of it sounds like some breakbeat shit...should check it out ...i think they have like a 15 day demo on it...

You never made it through the subject, did you?

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:45 am

zircon wrote:So far, of all the sample libraries I have, I've found eLab's "Smoker's Delight", "Obsession", and "Foundation" to be closest to what I want. However, I think there is better stuff out there.

...I hardly can't believe there is

However since you've named Crystal Method and Pendulum etc. you seem to be looking for a more "processed" type of sound. There was once a sample cd by BT (Breakz from the Nu Skool), but I think it has been withdrawn due to legal complications. Perhaps some sample cds from the Loopmasters are what you're looking for. Considering Pendulum - they have done a kit for the NI Synthetic Drums II - and if you might be up for some more dnb like sound you'd probably find Zero-G Firestorm, Zero-G EZ-Rollers Producer Pack or Zero-G Koncept & Funktion useful...

But actually, using any break in combination with some layering and the use of a Reverb/Compressor/Limiter will give you the sound you want...

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:49 pm

Yeah, I do use a ton of sliced breaks in my tracks. But I prefer to build my own from oneshots. Also, in my experience, "Synthetic" drums from different manufacturers means "unusable". I'm looking for phat, vintage sounds - not drum machines or far-out experimental stuff. I was really disappointed in all the electronic/synthetic categories in Battery 3, for example.

Ben H · Post by **Ben H** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:34 am

Smokers Relight deux...
http://bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?1309

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:56 am

Oooh! Very cool. I will have to pick that up. Any other suggestions, guys?

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:09 am

Steinberg Sounds and Cycles "Chemical Big Beats" - if you still get one (you know how long I looked for my copy), maybe some leftfield stuff (cold fusion).

Else I'd say Zero-G Total REX (has Konzept & Funktion, Jungle Warfare and some other cool stuff among it). EZ Rollers is cool, but nothing really that you heard somewhere else already (except some loops and samples maybe - so 20% of that DVD is actually good).

Much thump - Pendulum sure usues a lot of FX, a drop bass layered with the kick, bass enhancement and of course compression. So I'd say try it with your samples first, and then later get new samples.

However... why only look in the Bigbeat section? I remember that Big Fish has a very good Hihop sample CD with tons of boomy and punchy kicks. Triphop is a mix of rock and hiphop after all.

LOOPxDIGGA · Post by **LOOPxDIGGA** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:04 am

LOLOLOL@my response to this post....

i was very drunk last night when i wrote that...i just came back through here, cuz i didnt remember what i did, and seen that he said he has stylus RMX...and im sittin here reccomending it...lol

excuse my dumbness...

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:43 am

zircon wrote:I'm looking for phat, vintage sounds - not drum machines or far-out experimental stuff.

...but you're not looking for breaks, right? I still haven't figured it out entirely

. Because that E-Lab/Equipped Music stuff would be among the best for that! But in case you are looking for breaks, two additional recommendations...

http://www.breakbeat-cafe.net/

...and the old "Vinylistic" series from E-Lab.

But, as I said, it's not necessarily about the breaks itself, but more about certain techniques to process these beats. Regarding these artist you've mentioned, I think you can't tell if they were either using one-shots or loops (presumably, like everyone else, they've used a combination of both) and that's why I think you can't ask for a specific kind of format or sound - it's more about the way you treat your material...

Compyfox wrote:Triphop is a mix of rock and hiphop after all.

...and Big Beat is the same mixture, but with also Soul and Funk, but not in that depressing mood and a bit more sped up? And Drum & Bass is a mixture of... whereas UK Garage or 2Step is a mixture of... Come on

...
There are doubtlessly certain aspects characterising specific "genres", but such razor-sharp categorisations are rather useful for a mail-order catalogue...

Armadillo · Post by **Armadillo** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:57 am

Zircon, I can't believe you looking for TCM, Pendulum sort of sounds, and mention vinyl and yet are not satisfied with the 1000 kicks and snares in Stylus RMX.
I've made Breakbeat for the last 5 years or so and since it came out Stylus RMX has been my only source.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:32 pm

loachm; right, I'm not looking for breaks. I have a very large collection of breaks, and I would rather "roll my own" via oneshots. I do realize that the unique sound many breakbeat/big beat artists pull off is due to processing, but in the years I've been doing this style, I've realized that the base sample is WAY more important than any processing you do. I have over 100,000 oneshot drum WAVs and of those, there are maybe 10 samples that are truly gold.

Armadillo; RMX is pretty good for this kind of thing, but that's it - pretty good. There's nothing really phat or meaty in there, imo. Lots of the stuff is too processed or too weird. I've already been through every single kick or snare menu WAV by WAV and exported all the ones I consider usable so I can sample 'em outside of RMX. I came up with less than 100 samples, and I was being generous I think as I haven't used half of those.

When I get home later today, I can get some exact audio samples of the type of sound I'm looking for. If anyone thinks they can approximate that sound, I would love to hear it.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:41 pm

Dude... I know that you usually layer 3-4 drums. Maybe you try the same here, but go a bit easier on the kicks.

Then there're tons of tools out there:
Baxxpander, TubeDriver, CamelPhat Free, etc. Create your own "OOMPH". I mean... look at Chase (Corsair), his tracks are hard hitting DnB tracks with layered oldschool breaks and processed single stabs.

Pendulum with Slam? Heard the Live version? They used a live set where the kick was heaily compressed and bass enhanced. That's all.

Of course there're simpler ways out there, but if you layer your stuff anyway, why not try it with soundcreation first - like mentioned earlier? Saves you a lot of money too, and you can learn a shitload of stuff. At least that's what happened on my end.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:05 am

Yeah, I mean, I'll keep trying to make do with what I have. After all, I've been doing that for awhile

Still, new samples would be nice.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:10 am

Then go with Black Butta (guess that was big fish) or something rather than Triphop alone. Or the Zero-G Total REX, totally worth for the money, but not necessarily "big" sounding.

It's up to you, z-man.

Samples similar to Smoker's Delight/Obsession/Foundation?