LiveSlice vs. Lucifer

[maxhodges1]

I'm using GURU and thinking to buy LiveSlice or Lucifer. I really like the real-time looping controls and effects (like reverse and bounce) in Lucifer. Can LiveSlice do this too? Compared to Lucifer, how is LiveSlice different/better/worse?

Cheers!
Max

[loachm]

...I don't know Lucifer, but I think of it more as an effect device. So I would rather compare LiveSlice with GURU for LS is a very intuitive and sophisticated slicer and loop rearranger...

[Xnah]

From what I know of Lucifer (don't have it, but I do have Devine Machine), it's not really comparable to LiveSlice: It's like comparing Albino 3 with Wusikstation 3.

Both LiveSlice and Lucifer work with loops, and are able to slice them, but that's where the resemblance ends.

[R.A.W.]

i suggest that you just check out the demos of both plugs.

but afaik lucifer is an effect, while LS comes in two flavors, fx and instrument. what i like most about LS is the rearranging inside the gui while you can see the resulting waveform.
and LS is 64$ while lucifer is 99.99$

[spacefox]

I own and love both apps, so I might shed some light on the subject.

Both Lucifer and Liveslice can slice, reorder, stutter and reverse audio both incoming and from wave files. Both are geared toward live use. But they both take different approaches to reach there.

Liveslice is first and foremost a beat-slicer (make that: THE beat-slicer). Lucifer's slicing abilities are rudimentary. Liveslice can be very precise, surgical even - more than Lucifer, I think. It's re-arrangement capabilities are second to none. I'm a Lucifer fanatic, but if it's beat-slicing you're after I cannot recommend anything except LiveSlice. It's a brilliant app which is perfectly useful, immensely powerful, very intuitive and barrels-of-fun. It's a must for any beat-mangler. Really.

Lucifer is, well - it's Lucifer. It's a crazy performance tool which is played like an instrument (but is technically an effect). It's one of the most innovative plug-ins ever, if not the most innovative one (not disrespect to ohm). It can present a steep learning curve, but only because it is so incredibly deep. It can be what turnable is to a turntablist - something that allows you to creatively bend music at your will. Plus, it's a killer multi-fx. It's a must for any beat-mangler. Really.


Which one? I had this dilemma and choose both. I suggest you do the smart thing and follow my lead . If you can't afford them both - play with the demos extensively. After enough time spent with them, you probably still won't be able to make up your mind. But you will know which one you need more - they are just different enough.


One thing though, at least you already have Guru. That saves me the trouble of explaining why it is a must for any beat-mangler. And it is. Really.

afaik lucifer is an effect, while LS comes in two flavors, fx and instrument.

Lucifer is an effect, but can load WAV files.

[maxhodges1]

Hi spacefox,

Thanks for the very informative post. I download Lucifer and was able to get some very good results, so I went ahead and purchased it already. Now I can't seem to get midi routed to the it in Sonar 6, but that's a different topic…

Anyway, several people on various forums have praised LiveSlice, but I watched all the videos on their site (http://www.livelab.dk/liveslice_gallery.php), and they just didn't impress me. Rearranging loops doesn't seem like a bit deal (just trigger them in a different sequence using MIDI right?) Reverse is easy enough to do in any wave editor. Is it mainly the workflow time-savings which are the benefit?

I guess I'm just failing to appreciate what it can do. I'm still a bit new to desktop music production, but it would be great if you (or anyone else) could elaborate a little on why LiveSlice is so awesome.

I've only been working with desktop music production for a few months really, and mostly I've been evaluating various tools just to get a broad understanding of what is out there and what the capabilities are. Percussion is a weakness of mine (background in keyboard), so I've been focusing a lot of energy on coming up to speed with drum tracks. I found that laying out drum tracks in Sonar was like doing brain surgery on yourself in a mirror, so I got Guru which makes it a breeze.

But it seemed a bit difficult to use Guru alone to create breakbeat. It's very difficult for me to program all the Shifts and Volume graphs to create realistic sounding grooves. So GURU seems better suited for trance and other electronica, but maybe not so much for drill n bass.

So now I'm back to using Sonar, but working with loops. I'm slicing breakbeat samples by hand (in WaveLab), then triggering the samples with Midi. I tried Phatmatik, but don't really see what it offers beyond what I can do with Cyclone (http://www.kvraudio.com/get/208.html)--which comes free with Sonar.

I don't know what kind of music you are making, but if you (or anyone else) can pass along any tips, techniques and tools I'd love to hear.


Cheers!

[shamann]

I guess I'm just failing to appreciate what it can do. I'm still a bit new to desktop music production, but it would be great if you (or anyone else) could elaborate a little on why LiveSlice is so awesome.

I suppose Liveslice isn't meant to be dazzling in the same way that Lucifer is, given that it isn't overflowing with effects, but it is better designed as a compositional tool. It is fast and easy to use, and incredibly flexible. It's also designed for live use, some thing a lot of slice arranging software isn't designed to do.

With the scenes, you can quickly make variations on phrases and mix them on the fly, a lot like old-style group mute arranging (like old house Djs would do, play all tracks as loops and arrange by muting/unmuting), except Liveslice can do it in sync and lets you add in a lot of interesting accents on the fly. You can also do cool things like switch samples in out of the arrangement.

There are alternate ways to get any result with any music software, by Liveslice has really streamlined a lot of these processes. It's a pretty good slicer on its own, even without the the live side, but its the way everything can be done realtime that makes it so good. It's also a full sampler, meaning you can record your line in, slice and arrange it pretty quickly.

[R.A.W.]

max, to get an insight of what LS is capable of, you should check the reviews here http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1952.html

for me LS is the best slicer workflow-wise as everything is very visual (you see the resulting waveform), that's something you don't have when only triggering slices with midi (which you also can do with LS btw. ).

[spacefox]

Hi spacefox,

Hi. Sorry for the late reply.

I download Lucifer and was able to get some very good results, so I went ahead and purchased it already.

Glad that's taken care of. Now let's get you to buy LiveSlive.

Anyway, several people on various forums have praised LiveSlice, but I watched all the videos on their site (http://www.livelab.dk/liveslice_gallery.php), and they just didn't impress me. Rearranging loops doesn't seem like a bit deal (just trigger them in a different sequence using MIDI right?) Reverse is easy enough to do in any wave editor. Is it mainly the workflow time-savings which are the benefit?

Time saving is a lot, when creativity is involved. Fast means you might not miss that elusive moment when inspiration strikes, right?
But LiveSlice is many things other than just fast.

I guess I'm just failing to appreciate what it can do. I'm still a bit new to desktop music production, but it would be great if you (or anyone else) could elaborate a little on why LiveSlice is so awesome.

Well, I'm not an expert on LiveSlive by any stretch but I'll try to elaborate on what R.A.W and shamann already said:
- LiveSlice, unlike any other Beat-Slicer, can be used as an effect as well as an instrument.
- Unlike others, it can be used to create variations using the interface alone - no triggering with MIDI. It can be used as loop-based workstation - stored loops with variations, triggered via MIDI notes.
- It can produce random or semi-random result. Ideal for both experimentation and subtle changes to give variety to your looped music.

I've only been working with desktop music production for a few months really, and mostly I've been evaluating various tools just to get a broad understanding of what is out there and what the capabilities are. Percussion is a weakness of mine (background in keyboard), so I've been focusing a lot of energy on coming up to speed with drum tracks. I found that laying out drum tracks in Sonar was like doing brain surgery on yourself in a mirror, so I got Guru which makes it a breeze.

But it seemed a bit difficult to use Guru alone to create breakbeat. It's very difficult for me to program all the Shifts and Volume graphs to create realistic sounding grooves. So GURU seems better suited for trance and other electronica, but maybe not so much for drill n bass.

Seriously, as much as I'd like to see ohm, (or FXPansion or Steve Duda) sell another plug-in, if you are new to this, maybe don't rush into buying too much plug-ins at once. It can be quite overwhelming - even if you're not that new. The secret is - pace yourself and get to know your tools. People around here tend to are passionate about their plug-ins, so expect a lot of people telling you you MUST have this or that. Remember, there just know what's good for them. Not everything will work for you. Therefore - take your time, know your tools and experiment. Get only things you REALLY want or REALLY need.
But do that after you get LiveSlice:P

As far as your conclusions about Guru: I disagree completely, but won't go into that here. This has gone way too off-topic. PM if you want to talk more.

I don't know what kind of music you are making, but if you (or anyone else) can pass along any tips, techniques and tools I'd love to hear.

I don't know what kind of music I'm doing either. Really. But if you are part of the Guru beta mailing list, you can downloading quite a few drumloops I made - along with my band mate. (otherwise you'll have to wait till the next version is officially out).
(that must be my longest post ever)

[maxhodges1]

Thanks again for the thoughtful post. I PMed you about the GURU follow-up. But maybe you should keep in public: might help others--and sell more GURU

[spacefox]

Thanks again for the thoughtful post. I PMed you about the GURU follow-up. But maybe you should keep in public: might help others--and sell more GURU

Public? Sure. But not on Livelab forum.

This one is dedicated for selling more LiveSlice, an excellent breakbeat tool by itself.

Post at the Guru forum at FXPANSION.COM and we'll discuss it there. Also, check your PM.

[maxhodges1]

word. (I tend to never pay attention to what forum I'm on; I'll be more careful!)