KVR Audio

Chuck E. Jesus · Post by **Chuck E. Jesus** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:44 pm

Dunbar wrote:After many years flapping around blindly i made myself sit down and read up on harmonic theory. It's the best five minutes i've ever invested in education.

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:52 pm

Basically, I think it comes down to what sort of 'musician' you wish to be. If you 'compose' Trance using existing loops and stuff, then you don't really need to know anything about theory or how to read music. The same is true if you are only concerned with writing music for yourself, or even if you are a solo performer, etc. However, if you want to write for orchestra, or in a specific style, or to communicate with other scholarly types, then knowing about music theory and notation is absolutely essential.

WoJ · Post by **WoJ** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:58 pm

"or to communicate with other scholarly types"

see, thats the kind of stereotypical view a lot of people seem to take when taking about reading music/theory. There always seemed to be the view that music theory is only for "upperclass musicians/classical musician".

Western notation is used in a number of genre's, and its the standard for our culture, so i think it isnt only for 'scholars'. It can be used in a number of applications.

WoJ

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:03 pm

However, if you want to write for orchestra

an auto score program can do most of the work for you

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:12 pm

WoJ wrote:"or to communicate with other scholarly types"

see, thats the kind of stereotypical view a lot of people seem to take when taking about reading music/theory. There always seemed to be the view that music theory is only for "upperclass musicians/classical musician".

Western notation is used in a number of genre's, and its the standard for our culture, so i think it isnt only for 'scholars'. It can be used in a number of applications.

I agree, I just meant when communicating with other people who work with music theory. - Ie, if you're just bashing tunes in your garage with your school friends, it isn't really necessary. I never said theory was only for classical musicians!

androidlove wrote:
However, if you want to write for orchestra
an auto score program can do most of the work for you

Well, yes, you can also get auto-harmonisation programs for the chords, you can probably create melodies from some software too, - why bother doing any of it? (It's like saying why bother to learn to sing in tune when you can just use Auto-Tune later?)

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:25 pm

Well, yes, you can also get auto-harmonisation programs for the chords, you can probably create melodies from some software too, - why bother doing any of it? (It's like saying why bother to learn to sing in tune when you can just use Auto-Tune later?)

scoring is just the boring work. there's no talent needed. it has nothing to do with writing the music. why would you take it to that extreme?

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:37 pm

androidlove wrote:
scoring is just the boring work. there's no talent needed.

That's not true at all. Orchestration needs a lot of talent; there are highly experienced professionals who do just this for a living (Herbert Spencer, Nick Ingman etc.) You need to know the ranges and nuances of all the instruments, be able to transpose on the fly, know what to double and when, and a lot more. - It's no walk in the park, and to say there's no talent needed is very insulting IMO. Also, although time consuming, it can be enjoyable.

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:43 pm

to say there's no talent needed is very insulting

well, i can't call it a skill either. it's one of those things you can do after you read the manual or while using a manual for reference. it's akin to using a piece of software. however, there are some older ppl who think being able to use software makes you a computer genius

goldbaker · Post by **goldbaker** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:52 pm

androidlove wrote:
to say there's no talent needed is very insulting
well, i can't call it a skill either. it's one of those things you can do after you read the manual or while using a manual for reference. it's akin to using a piece of software. however, there are some older ppl who think being able to use software makes you a computer genius

No question that orchestration\arranging is a unique talent. It's different than songwriting, that's all. Any song or piece of music can be made to sound dramatically different depending on the arrangement. (I had some fun with Flight of the Bumblebee and the old Dies Irae gregorian chant, if you want to check it below.) Although I'm not personally partial to dance remixes, I certainly think it takes skill to rearrange songs even in that context.

One of the most famous examples is Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's piano pieces "Pictures at an Exhibition." I've never even heard the piano version -- Ravel's orchestral version has taken over.

shinken · Post by **shinken** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:55 pm

Apart from highbrow types of music, it's necessary to know some music theory to understand jazz.

shinken · Post by **shinken** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:56 pm

CypherOne wrote:nah, I've never needed more than 3 notes..

I get this.

AgonisThorn · Post by **AgonisThorn** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:57 pm

androidlove wrote:... it's one of those things you can do after you read the manual or while using a manual for reference.

That's true, and is indeed true of MOST activities, so long as you keep in mind that "can do" =/= "can do well". I am a bassist and guitarist; while I "can" play keyboards, mandolin, violin, and tinwhistle, I'd not expect anyone to pay me to do so.

I learned theory long ago and by choice. Aside from my insane thirst for knowledge on ANY subject, I feel that understanding HOW and WHY music works (which is what theory is, rather than the minutiae of drawing notes and formatting your staves) makes me a better musician. Even as a bassist in the rock trio format (where I make my music-related income at present), I use my knowledge of harmonisation to keep my bass lines fresh and to suggest new voicings and variations on themes to our guitarist.

I like knowing WHY what I'm playing works, rather than the rote memory of "okay I put my fingers HERE...".

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:02 pm

okay I put my fingers HERE...

it's not even that complicated for me

i'm probably just a simple mind. you can hear my house experiment by clicking on my sig. i'll have my simple rock and roll songs up later (man, solos are a bitch)

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:03 pm

adammann wrote:Someone started a thread asking about where to learn about music theory. This got me to thinking...How many of you can read music? And if not, how do you make music? Do you feel like you're missing out at all because you can't read it?

I know a LOT of music theory. University-grad level theory, jazz theory, composition, orchestration, arranging, you name it -- even did some research into atonal music.

I feel like it holds me back sometimes. In a couple of ways. For instance, my piano chops are what they are, and I have to be playing for a while before I get loose. For another example, when I'm writing something, the floodgates of creativity do not open unless the idea comes in a flash.

I know guys who learn maybe 5 chords and are writing songs and get more done in a day than I've done in the last 15 years.

androidlove · Post by **androidlove** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:07 pm

Flight of the Bumblebee

it's polka time!

Dies Irae

wow, that was like an 80's movie. also reminded me of the old disney electric light parade. that thing had some synth power

How many of you know music theory?If not,do you feel limited