How many of you know music theory?If not,do you feel limited

[VicDiesel]

scoring is just the boring work. there's no talent needed. it has nothing to do with writing the music.

Bullshit. Clearly you've never sang in choir (preferably one of the inner voice) or played in an orchestra. It takes talent to turn the "filler" parts into real music. Sure you're not writing the melody or the harmony at that point, but you can tell the musician from the hack by how he writes those parts.

Victor.

[androidlove]

i've been in choirs and vocal groups (even sang barber shop once)

i was in band from 5th grade till i graduated

i was the guitarist in college jazz band

i've arranged for my rock bands

[VicDiesel]

i've been in

Then you should be able recognize the difference between a hack job arrangement and one that is truly musical.

Victor.

[The_Cresta]

OMG "no talent for scoring"

[Ubiety]

Good orchestration is unbelievably difficult to do and great orchestration is even more difficult. Not only does one need a serious and thorough harmonic foundation but one also needs to understand sound, at least every type of traditional orchestral instrument - their strengths and weaknesses, their range and limitations. Plus one needs to be able to articulate and communicate difficult to understand passages verbally to the orchestra in addition to being able to notate it successfully in the first place. The breadth of knowledge needed to be a good orchestrator is vast, not to mention that one needs regular access to an orchestra and the musicians that make up that orchestra.

Compared to writing the piece of music itself, many composers would say that orchestration is the real work and where the strength and talent of a composer becomes known. Indeed orchestration is an integral and important part of the composition process. Film composers who use orchestrators commonly write all of the voicings to the soundtrack that needs to be orchestrated. That way no matter what the orchestrator decides to do, the composer will get full credit for composing the soundtrack. Given the tight deadlines in Hollywood the need for using an orchestrator is very real for many Hollywood composers. Anyway, scorers like John Williams who represent the lineage of the likes of Bernard Hermann are increasingly rare in Hollywood, the guys who do it all, composing and orchestrating the music that makes up the soundtrack. That John Barry sound or that Jerry Goldsmith sound is a direct result of their abilities to orchestrate as well as being able to write memorable themes.


Anyway, orchestration is not boring, that's where the fun really begins. It's what earns the composer the respect of the musicians who make up the orchestra. They are the ones who have to play it and if they are not pleased then the performance will suffer. And so another useful thing for a composer/orchestrator to know is the personalities, temperaments and abilities of the musicians that he or she will be working with. Orchestration is not a trivial matter by any means.

[gnu23]

I read music pretty well - bass clef throws me to this day (and I play a bass! argh) - I have to stop and resynch myself to bass clef often. I started in guitar and moved to trumpet in school, so treble clef was my home for all of my formative years. I'm a helluva good sight-reader in treble. As for theory - enough to write but I'm always up for learning more.

There are so many folks who don't read music but write beautifully and so many who know theory out the wazoo and get trapped by it. My take then is this - if you have natural musical ability and you don't know a lot about theory or reading music, take the time to learn the basics. The rest will take care of itself. There's nothing quite like stumbling across a phrase or chord out of the blue, and just going from there without thinking a lot.

[VicDiesel]

bass clef throws me to this day

I'm getting pretty decent at alto clef these days. Not sure if I'll ever get round to tenor clef.

I refuse to acknowledge the existence of soprano clef.

Victor.

[No name]

I've been into music for about a decade now (that shit makes me feel old!) I got a keyboard when I first started, and for like 9 years i've been toying with keys to the point that I can pretty much hear notes in my head and play them, SO LONG AS IT'S NOT TOO COMPLEX. If that is the case than i'd have to do what a lot of other folks have said they do, rewind and go note for note. Now as for my theory, I know a little, and like my key playing, I can read it if I tke my time and go note for note. I'm considering doing some sort of lessons or something sometime soon so that I can learn to play/read music better. I don't know how I come up with stuff sometimes. At times it almost seems like i'm pressing random keys in combinations, well not too random, and coming up with decent stuff. I'm looking to get into something with a litttttle more foundation though. Anyways, I think when it comes to the question at hand then a little story about a physicist named Richard Feynmann comes to mind..

He is a very famous physicist who is responsible for some great discoveries, but he talked about how after so long of doing physics and the math behind it he came to a point to where he was so uptight about his math, he was no longer having fun with this "art" he loved so much for so long. He realized that because of this, he kept getting stuck and he was going nowhere. Frustrated, he decided he would go back to doing his math for the fun of it. Sure enough, after he began doing this, not only did he become productive again, but he furthered physics in a big way and won the nobel prize.

Moral of the story, whether you are fluent in music theory or not, NEVER look at it too deeply while you are in the process of creating the music, just have fun with it! That's when you'll truly become inspired, and as we all know too well, inspiration means everything in music.

Long post over.

[Jafo]

Actually, I feel limited because of my knowledge of music theory. Or rather, that it is so much greater than my ears. I used to think that all I had to do was think about music to be a great musician.

I think maybe it's more about (training? culturing? awakening?) the whole person -- especially the ears -- more than the excess or lack of any given part.

Err, but that's just my theory...

[Fundy]

Anyone can compose but if they don't know music theory (or even a little bit) how can they put across what they did, to other musicians? The answer is they can't really so it helps to know a little bit.

I don't mean the nitty-gritty of foreign teriminology like Scherzo, or the numerous foreign terms. However at least the keys, modes and rhythm part of it.

[androidlove]

how can they put across what they did, to other musicians?

i handed out tape of everyone's parts. if i wanted to make changes on the fly, i'd hum the part to the band or just play the part. i've had to get behind the drums to demonstrate.

today i would just hand out midi.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

i've been in

Then you should be able recognize the difference between a hack job arrangement and one that is truly musical.

Victor.

oh snap!

[Chuck E. Jesus]

seriously, i don't know shit about orchestrating and such, but if Qunicy Jones' job on "Plays Henry Mancini" is an example, it's a very creative thing indeed....

[rp314]

One of the most famous examples is Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's piano pieces "Pictures at an Exhibition." I've never even heard the piano version -- Ravel's orchestral version has taken over.

I don't disagree with the points you made in your posts, but if you ever do want to check out one of the greatest live performances of the original piano version I'd recommend this one by Sviatoslav Richter:

http://www.amazon.com/Sofia-Recital-195 ... F8&s=music

There are some other live recordings of Richter from around that period which are also very good. The combination of technical ability and sheer energy of his performance is amazing; and the music, well...

[CapnLockheed]

Aw whatever, just because you have'nt memorized The Joy of Sex
or the Kama Sutra does'nt mean you don't know how to f*ck.

Cheers.....CL