Any reason to NOT get the Axiom 25?

[GreyLion]

After a fair amount of obsessing and researching, I'm about to nominate the M-Audio Axiom 25 to my family as the Christmas present I want.

I'll likely be using it to try to control Reaper, M-Powered, and various soft-synths. Will lay down basic VSTi tracks with it, as well as bass lines, since I can't seem to get my real bass guitar to de-muddify when I record it. Will be mostly rock and blues type of songs.

The $250 price range is about as high as I can go, and I fantasize that I'm likely to use it more than a larger one, because it's small enough that I can just pull it into my lap and play in front of the monitor, rather than having to set up a bigger keyboard. I am so not a keyboard player, so will likey have to layer lines in anyhow, so the lack of keys won't be a problem. I think.

From what I gather it's really sturdy and has good action.

Anybody here got an Axiom of any size, and has had any problems you'd like to rant about that might change my mind? Are the knobs actually usable for controlling parameters, for instance? Does the Axiom hold up over a period of time?

Any better competitor to it for doing the things I've mentioned?

Thanks for any help, guys!

[lacyrhoades]

Okay first of all I love the Axiom 25. LOVE IT. I bought it when I didn't have enough money to afford it. I always thought I'd sell it so I kept it really nice.. plus I already have a semi-weighted 76 key Roland.. I never got around to selling the Axiom. It's way too awesome. I'd sell other gear, even the Roland first.

I never thought about the lap-sized part of it before I bought it but now that I have it I have to tell you that you are SO VERY correct in saying that it makes it better. It really does. Furthermore if I ever obtain a decent portable PC I'll appreciate the USB connection over a normal MIDI connection and the size will allow me to take it with me .. I do that already even without a laptop.. I take it to my friend's house etc etc.. The only probem there is you have to be sure they wash their hands.

Since you did ask for any complaints I will give you my two.

The first is fairly obvious; a lack of keys. While considering how userful the Axiom is, I have no reason to keep the Roland really.. but there is just the fact that I love playing piano sounds with both hands. I'm not good at it at all but I like it a lot. Also, the two octaves in the Axiom 25 make me feel limited just as if I can't start anywhere in the scale I want to.. it has transposition and octave shifting but still you can't just go for a walk and not expect to run into the wall.

The second is really hard for me to judge because it's a sort of "grass is green on the other side of the fence" issue; that's the lack of one-dimensional sliders. My friend has the next step up, (the 46 is it?) and when I consider his I really start to think I'd like to have those eight sliders.. specifically for track volume control while leaving the rotary encoders for effects or what have you. I heard these sliders were "cheesey" somewhere (I think it was here on KVR..) anyway I don't know because I don't have them.. however I have also heard that encoders aren't as good as knobs.. but I haven't had any trouble out of these encoders.. and it even allows you to change the binary communication from the encoders for different hosts/hardware.

Overall I have to say this is my favorite MIDI controller of all time. It's semi-weighted, reliable, USB, compact and light and portable.. and it looks sharp.. I mean it comes in BLACK.

[GreyLion]

Thanks for the extensive post, lacy!

I'm kinda like you in that I keep flipping back and forth between the 25 and 49 key versions. But I don't think I'd use the 49 as casually. More setup and likely a stand, and so on....And I want to really encourage myself to make more music in the coming year. I wish the 25 had just a couple of sliders. Would make it a no-brainer to get then.

I've got an old 61-key Casio that sends MIDI, that I kept telling myself I'd learn to play on, with an X-stand. But it just mostly sits leaning against the wall....

[dark.nowhere]

I have a 49. My only real complaint is that the knobs (digital) blow (IMO) with lots of resistance (clickclickclickclick.) The sliders aren't of amazing quality either, but they're certainly usable. I'm not exactly disappointed - it's worth the money, although you may find a more suitable product for roughly that price.

I almost wish I bought a 25 instead because the small size would be handy. (This is more for composition though, so 49 keys is perfect.) I'm looking at a lappy tomorrow in order to make my equipment all the more portable. OTOH, I might be better investing in something else to fill the 25 key void, but I have reasons specific to my needs for that.

[DevonB]

Have you played one for yourself? I recently went through a LOT of the small keyboards at Guitar Center like a few weeks ago. That includes the M-Audio's, Axioms, EMu's, etc. The action on each and every one of them felt terrible and felt like you got what you paid for. If you want a basis of comparison, the Korg MicroX at least didn't feel bad. I also wonder how much you could pick up a used Novation Remote 25, the ORIGNAL, not these newer ones that again, feel cheap. If you can live with that action on the keybed, bonus for you. I'm very spoiled by working with a very high quality keyboed in my old Yamaha board that has held up for 11 years and still feels great. Just my opinion.

Devon

[GreyLion]

Thanks, dark and DevonB!

I live in a medium-sized central Texas town. There's one slghtly larger family-owned music store and you've convinced me to check what keyboards they have there, Devon. I'm gonna try tomorrow -- I get embarrassed doing that, knowing I'm going to end up buying from somebody else over the net. (I can get one from Studica for $159, no tax and no shipping charges...) And I probably won't get to Austin to check at the Guitar Center there, before the keyboard gets bought. My bad, not enough fore-planning.

I get the impression, though, from hitting the net a lot, that I'd have to spend $400 or more to get a significantly better keyboard, and that's right out.

The knobs sound like something to be concerned about, but, like I said, I have little sense of discrimination about keyboard touch at this point. The old Casio feels good to me, for instance.

Keyboards for typing, though, I'm a complete geek about...Lemme tell you about my Northgate Omnikey Ultra and my collection of old mechanical-switch IBMs.... so, maybe I'll develop touch where musical keyboards are concerned. Grrr, just don't want to end up regretting the purchase....

I have the suspicion that, if I find myself getting deep into the keyboard thing, and get good enough to actually play, I'll end up getting a larger, fancier one later on next year.

[.jon]

Just in response to Devon's opinion - there aren't probably many original Remotes in good condition as the Novation controllers suffer from low quality... and the keys on MicroX suck, like on most Korgs. It's a taste issue, see.

[benjamind]

The newer ReMOTE line does suffer from quality issues, but my original ReMOTE 49 plays like a dream. I did try out a ReMOTE SL 37 and I must say the keys don't feel as nice compared to my (older and better) ReMOTE 49. In fact they feel somewhat mushy, the action is a little on the rubbery side, whereas on my (say old) ReMOTE 49 the key action is more wooden in overall feel. More solid and I can play better.

Rule of thumb, just because something is *new* doesn't mean it's *better*, quite often it's the opposite.

Remember the old sleeping pills, they worked and got the job done, but the new ones it's a game of hit and miss. Ditto for painkillers. In the old days you could even buy heroin for tootaches (dental abscesses anyone? trust me they f#$%ing HURT, I've had to deal with 4 in my lifetime!) in tablet or elixir form. These days, you end up in jail for that sort of shit. And these days for even really serious pain you get handed something like Lortab or Percocet which is weak as shit in comparison. Talk to any cancer patients whose doctors won't give them access to fentanyl, morphine or oxycodone which are the only decent painkillers out there.

Cadbury chocolate isn't as good as it used to be. With exception to the Old Gold line, the 70% cocoa block, and the new Eden line, the rest of it is sickly sweet to the point of making me want to puke. These days I buy Lindt chocolate if I want the taste of milk chocolate. The vast majority of the stuff is just overloaded with sugar.

The theory that newer doesn't mean better holds up well in an AWFUL lot of situations, not just keyboards.

As for audio interfaces, well, that's a different situation. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the new TC Konnekt firewire interfaces are PHENOMENAL for the money. If you buy a Konnekt then consider it money WELL spent.

As they say...old...and new...hit...and miss...it's a random...*cough cough* ehem...erhm...random world.

Ben

[declassified]

I never owned one of these, but I considered buying it once. I went with the Alesis Photon X25, though.

I think you may consider the Photon as an alternative. 200 euros and you get a solid, very good looking keyboard with a fancy infrared controller. I'm very satisfied with it, and I haven't even gotten around to using the infrared controller yet. I have to use ASIO4all 1.8, though, but it works flawlessly. Latency: 10ms. I could get lower, but this setting works even with very complex tracks.

Keys are ok, better than some of the other 25-key-boards. The knobs feel very solid, except for the "Value" knob. It's nice to use on stage because of the red light (especially on the pitch and modulation wheels).

[DevonB]

Lemme tell you about my Northgate Omnikey Ultra

Ah yes, the keyboard if you knocked someone over the head with, you'd probably seriously hurt them. I swore by my Northgate keyboard for years too. It's probalby what's made me a better typist. Now I swear by my Microsoft Natural keyboard.

Go to the store and play with the keys. Get over the guilt. I sat down at Gutiar Center a few weeks ago for about 2-3 hours to play the Yamaha Motif ES to rule it out of buying, ended up falling in love, and turned around on EBay and bought the rack version for 1/2 price of what they wanted. You do what'cha gotta do. If you're finding it cheaper on the net, and that's the only reason you're nto buying local, ask them to price match. If they won't then buy it online.

I'd say you really ought to go down to Austin to play too. I've regreted buying keybeds without playing with them first. I won't do it again. Like I'd NEVER buy a guitar without playing it first, period...

Devon

[inverseroom]

I had the high-end Remote 25, and it felt pretty good, but it was way overspec'd for me, and I sold it to buy the Axiom 25. I really, really like it! I think it's a great buy. Keys look and feel VERY good--a nice synth action! Construction is solid. I'd say go for it.

[DevonB]

Just in response to Devon's opinion - there aren't probably many original Remotes in good condition as the Novation controllers suffer from low quality... and the keys on MicroX suck, like on most Korgs. It's a taste issue, see.

Ok, I went down to Guitar Center again today. Oh god, I take back what I said about the MicroX keys. Those are horrid! The Axiom 25 certainly did feel better than that thing. Still, the Axiom was not as good as what I've been playing for years. There are so few keybeds out there that just feel 'right'. Unfortuanely, it seems most people are now getting used to the junk on the market, so there is no demand for a higher quality keybed, so it seems.

Devon

[GreyLion]

Yeah, it's that whole market thing happening, where 'good-enough' at a low price drives 'excellent' out of business. Sucks, because, after awhile there simply is no upper-end, except for boutique stuff that's insanely out-of-reach expensive for most of us.

[GreyLion]

declassified -- The X25, just from a quick look, seems interesting. Doesn't appear to have after-touch, which I am not experienced enough to know whether I'll really use anyhow. Also, no transport controls, as far as I can tell. the infrared theremin thing could rock, I can see that.

But -- what's with the 1/4" audio ins and outs? Sounds very intriguiing, but what are they for? It's all MIDI on this thing, yes?

[GreyLion]

Oh! I see -- it's also an audio interface through the USB connection. Cool!