Pro Tools = Rip Off

[Hink]

I can engineer/record/mix, I'm learning to master (though there's a gear curve with that, too), I can design and sell sounds (which I've started with FLipEXP, though that's nonprofit, but will continue if it does well), I can edit and score sound for film, and TBH live sound doesn't sound much harder than mixing a record, it's just mike placement and test mixing.

I'm not above day-jobbing if that's what it takes, but I'd love to start up a studio in conjunction with one of several up-and-coming labels in the area, there's money in collaboration if you can provide production insight as well as engineering skill.

I wish you all the luck in the world Tox...I'm not saying that sarcastically either...stick to your guns...

[theshaggyfreak]

I can engineer/record/mix, I'm learning to master (though there's a gear curve with that, too), I can design and sell sounds (which I've started with FLipEXP, though that's nonprofit, but will continue if it does well), I can edit and score sound for film, and TBH live sound doesn't sound much harder than mixing a record, it's just mike placement and test mixing.

I'm not above day-jobbing if that's what it takes, but I'd love to start up a studio in conjunction with one of several up-and-coming labels in the area, there's money in collaboration if you can provide production insight as well as engineering skill.

I wish you all the luck in the world Tox...I'm not saying that sarcastically either...stick to your guns...

I'm excited about scoring a short film that I'm involved with here next year. Ultimately, I would love to work in film or video games but I'll do whatever it takes as well. As long as my wife can *ahem* support us, I'll do anything I can.

[GreyLion]

ugo -- Cool on the SL3! Interesting. What I mostly remember, when I was researching this stuff, is hitting a lot of forums and people saying that beat detection with tempo mapping didn't work well and/or was damn hard to use, in Cubase v3 and Sonar v5.

So, it does do tempo mapping through the whole song for you, even if you have to do it in pieces?

I find that in M-Powered, it's best to use Beat Detective by selecting about four bars at a time and walking through the song that way.

[ugo]

So, it does do tempo mapping through the whole song for you, even if you have to do it in pieces?

i've spent most of my use of the warp features getting recorded audio to better lock in with midi, rather than vice versa. but i have done a few experiments with using the groove from a loop as my quantize method for midi. while (if i remember correctly) there was room for improvment in the UI department, it generally seemed to work well. of course i have not needed these features much, so i have not used them extensively enough to offer a serious review of them. but from the bit i have done with them, they seem to work well.

[Sascha Franck]

You can already sync your tempo map to "un-metronomed" audio since ages in Cubase. Of course, you sometimes need to tell it which accent/transient is supposed to be on which beat, but if you are quick it takes no more than 5 minutes to "reclock" an entire song.

But, from what I seem to remember (I'm not familiar with it at all) Beat Detective has quite some other strengths than creating tempo tracks. Isn't it also about correcting audio timing of different tracks so they match each other?

Regarding the "PT as an industry standard" issue, I am very happy that this isn't exactly the case over here in germany.
I do know it's great for audio multitracking, probably still the best, there's also certain advances of bundling hardware with it, ensuring things will "just work" indeed, yet, I think that in a whole lot of other aspects, most sequencers are surpassing PT by now.

Also, what you often hear is the "almost zero latency" argument. Well, these days, there's some native systems catching up, if not being faster. The latest Apogee Symphony system allows for a total system latency of 1.6ms. Admittedly, when you go for such a system (which requires a MacPro to even start with), you're easily in the PT price range already.
But rest assured, latencies as low as these will be common for everybody in a matter of 1-2 years. Actually, they almost are already. My sort of aging Pentium M 1.86 can already go down as low as 2.2ms (that's total I/O latency) under 96kHz and 64 samples, using an Indigo I/O. Admittedly, I can't do much on it, it's just starting to sweat too fast - but that's just a matter of CPU power, nothing else.

The "file compatibility" issue has indeed be an issue for several years by now. And yes, of course it's an advance of being able to collaborate with people using the same sequencer. File histories, channel settings, MIDI data - all being preserved. Cool.
Yet, there's OMF and by now it's working quite well, at least in some sequencers. Just that for OMF support in PT you have to pay another 500 bucks, whereas it comes for free with Logic, Cubase, Sonar and probably a few others as well.
Oh yes, I *do* know OMF (or doing complete track "stems") is way sub par, compared to just using the same sequencer.
But then, being limited to PT while working probably isn't all that great of a thing either.

Oh yeah, then there's the ICON concept. Kickass, nothing else. But simply out of the ballpark for all home and project studios - and even for some professional studios.

So, my personal bottomline would be: If you run a home, project, semi-pro or whatever studio, you better buy whatever sequencer suits *your* very personal needs. As soon as it comes to transfering whatever projects, you can find a way as well. Done that multiple times, and while requiring a bit more of thinking and work, it always turned out just fine.

[sing]

My problem with avid/digidesign is that not only is the software crippleware, but the hardware is crippleware too. There's always some proprietary bent to everything this company does so it can suck as much ca$h from it's users as possible. It amazes me that anyone would suffer their abuse.

[theshaggyfreak]

My problem with avid/digidesign is that not only is the software crippleware, but the hardware is crippleware too. There's always some proprietary bent to everything this company does so it can suck as much ca$h from it's users as possible. It amazes me that anyone would suffer their abuse.

I have never once thought my PT LE system was crippled either in hardware or software. The only crippled system of any kind is due to the engineer sitting in front of it not knowing how to us it.

[lavoll]

this thread made me want to try the mpowered protools demo.
but the stupid driver installation program that maudio uses wont let me update my delta rbus to the latest version. and tech support was quick but totally useless...so. nevermind.
the installation program is not able to figure out where it put the drivers it installed or unpacked... and i dont know where since it never asked, so it ends up installing an older version of the drivers.... and maudio refuses to give out the drivers in any other way than their program. is it so hard to just zip em up and mail them to me? grrr.

[irispill]

I just bought into the Avid HDX DSP thing for lower latency as a move over from Native only to discover much to my dismay that Almost NO Manufactures of plugins today are compatible with AVID DSP chips and can only run native anyway. Nowhere does it say anything about this in the sales literature or does any sales person mention it. I have given so much money to AVID over the years and every time I have felt completely betrayed. But alas, I feel locked into the platform for compatibility reasons.

[irispill]

And after spending so much money, there is no tech support besides the DUC - this is totally lame. I called MCDSP the other day and they answered the phone! and helped me out. They are by the way one of the very few who are still compatible with HDX DSP chips. along with Sonnox and I don't know who else.

[irispill]

Oh yeah and as regards the hardware post above. I bought an HD i/o 8x8x8. And nowhere that I could find did it ever say that even though the box has the option to run a plethora of IO. It can only run 16 total IO at a time. The ENCL IO is also part of this limit. This was only discovered after purchase trying to set it up as well.

[jens]

[vurt]

that's what my hair looks like these days.

[jens]

Your hair and my beard, son.

[whyterabbyt]

I just bought into the Avid HDX DSP thing

the 5 grand one?

only to discover

due diligence?