How to... Harmonizing a melody? (starter level)

[original flipper]

HI

I know why you didn't want to write that Sascha!

I think I will copy and paste that for myself!

TBH, this stuff should be put into a special tutorial or Q&A section - there are so many requests for theory and related areas that it is almost a shame that this and other good 'advice' gets lost.

Thanks.

Flipper.

[Gustar]

HI

I know why you didn't want to write that Sascha!

I think I will copy and paste that for myself!

TBH, this stuff should be put into a special tutorial or Q&A section - there are so many requests for theory and related areas that it is almost a shame that this and other good 'advice' gets lost.

Thanks.

Flipper.

Absolutely ! Actually, maybe we would arrive at the advanced stuff sometime in the future ? I'd be interested to know, if I can really use a "7 (9/#11)" chord or if it has only theoretical value.

[nuffink]

HI

I know why you didn't want to write that Sascha!

I think I will copy and paste that for myself!

TBH, this stuff should be put into a special tutorial or Q&A section - there are so many requests for theory and related areas that it is almost a shame that this and other good 'advice' gets lost.

Thanks.

Flipper.

Absolutely ! Actually, maybe we would arrive at the advanced stuff sometime in the future ? I'd be interested to know, if I can really use a "7 (9/#11)" chord or if it has only theoretical value.

Sure you can. Lydian Dominant mode, it's the default choice for Substitute Dominants. It's a lovely chord.

[Compyfox]

So... VicDiesel and JumpingJackFlash, you both went rather by the melody "itself" than a certain rule (still I don't get them though)? Then again, JJF said to drop the G#, then it's a bit simpler to create chords. Hm... never actually thought of that, I just went by ear. So I might look into that a bit more.


The stuff that you posted Sascha is also... well... massive. I first need to get deeper into it and actually understand what's going on. It makes a bit more sense now with the "roman numbers" and what I can do to let chord progessions sound more "fluent". However "real" playing on a keyboard will take time - a lot of time (or in my case, forever - unless a lightning strikes me and I finally understand how to use ChordSpace "correctly", still I'd first need to write down my planned progression, analyse it, set it properly up in Playa and then play it).

Never thought of inversions actually (especially since most "chord tools" only do the root chord), and I got it wrong with them too. For CEG I thought the first inverson is GCE and the second EGC, so I go down in terms of octave, but seems like I was mistaken.


Unfortunately the book "Idiot Guide to Music Theory" is sold out in my town and takes 2-4 weeks to arrive via Amazon, but I might consider it if there is no other "dead f*cking simple" theory book in german out there.

Really, I don't want to blow weeks on theory if I really want to start writing music, as mentioned in a couple of other posts within the last days. In this case, now I'd be really glad if I had actual lessons while I still was a kid - but I never had the luck.


Thanks however. Guess I just call it a night for today.

[Sascha Franck]

Sure you can. Lydian Dominant mode, it's the default choice for Substitute Dominants. It's a lovely chord.

Yeah.
It's also a great choice for secondary dominants sometimes.
And, in a "bluesy but not so bluesy" context, I even like it for tonic chords (well, at least the scale, that is).

[VicDiesel]

So... VicDiesel and JumpingJackFlash, you both went rather by the melody "itself" than a certain rule (still I don't get them though)? Then again, JJF said to drop the G#, then it's a bit simpler to create chords.

Combination of rules and common sense. There is no single key that has Bb and G# in it, so clearly the tune si doing something creative. That's where experience comes in. If you try to harmonize a tune with I-IV-V (in this case D, G, A) then the Bb tells me that the G becomes a Gminor, and the G# note indicates a modulation.

Could you follow what I wrote? How far did you get?

Victor.

[Sascha Franck]

Compyfox, if you follow what I've written step by step, it'll take you no longer than an afternoon.
And you defenitely don't need to be a keyboard wizard either, you could even program everything in a piano roll.

[Compyfox]

To be honest, I understood some, like that you (VicDiesel) rather used the simplyfied notes (legato, not the small arpeggios as addons) as basis for the chord creation. I did the same back in the day with trial and error for my remix (it's on my page), but it never sounded... well, alive. (without being able to play piano it's also an issue why it is that way).


To be honest, I didn't quite understand the rest, as with most of the written stuff on this page. I really need to sleep about it and do lots and lots of rereading. Especially since it's all written in english (not that I'm bad at it, but theory stuff that you never really learned, and on top of that in a foreign language "is" hard to understand).

[Dunbar]

Music theory can be a very frustrating area to explore, especially if you're new to it and have no refernce points. It's like being dropped into a foriegn country and not knowing the language.

If the above posts are making your brain hurt, then don't worry - you are in good company. A lot of people switch off when confronted with an endless list of abstract formulas and ideas. To be honest, i don't think an internet forum is the best place to learn about harmonic theory. It will just confuse you.

Also, avoid books that assume you want to learn about notation (those weird lines and dots and squiggles). These books are a pain in the arse. You can learn about this shit later if you want, but it's not really necassary unless you want to read music (and who does?).

For a really good, simple introduction (with no bullshit) try reading this tutorial: http://www.chordmaps.com/

Remember to give yourself pleanty of time and don't get stressed if you don't understand some of it. Sit down in front of your keyboard and try playing some of the things that you're reading about and it will make sense more quickly. You will be suprised how quickly you can work out which notes sound good together and can be made into chords that work with your melodies.

I think you mentioned that you use Harmony Navigator. Well, this app does everything i need for finding scales, chords and progressions. I'm sure it can do the same for you. Just turn off the ridiculous music that accompanies the chords and you should get a better idea of how to fit chords to you own melodies.

[Compyfox]

No sorry, I tried the demo of Harmony Navigator. But due to the demo limitations I didn't get far with what I tried to do and I didn't want to blow 99bucks on it (same with BiaB).

I rather stick to ChordSpace (Playa) at the moment. It's helping shelling out some quick stuff (as you can listen to here - though I never found a proper fitting "inversed" bass), but I didn't get the big picture yet. Especially with Playa.

[loopdon]

You said:

"Or if maybe somebody knows where there's a "scale/key detector" as standalone or VSTi form, I'd reall appreciate it (maybe this'd be something for Nuffink?). "

Have you tried the one in fl studio? Don't want to nag you with it (coz i posted it before and no reaction) but in the piano-roll --> helpers --> detect scale (detects minor and major scales)would do what you are asking for, no?

You can import a midi-file generated elsewhere and the use that function on it then.

Müsste doch klappen, denk ich.

[Compyfox]

Müsste auch in Cubase klappen, tut es aber nicht wirklich. Das System ist furchtbar dafür. Und nein, FL kauf ich wegen dieser Funktion nicht.

Ich sehe einfach keinen Nutzen in FL als Cubase User, außer es ist wirklich ein "Athemberaubendes" Feature. (haste mal'n Paar Snapshots die du mir als PM schicken kannst? Rein interesse halber)

[loopdon]

Müsste ich bei Gelegenheit mal machen. Ich kümmer mich darum. Muß mir die ganze
Geschichte auch mühsam erschließen, mangels musikalischer Vorbildung. Macht mir aber Spaß.

Ich will Dir auch bestimmt nicht nahelegen, Fruity Loops zu kaufen. Einsicht in die Funktion müsstest Du auch mit der Demo nehmen können.

//back to english:

I think this thread needs to be stickified!
kudos to al the contributers and the massive effort people are going to in order to help.

PS:

another link i often see mentioned is
http://www.ravenspiral.com/ravenspiralguide.pdf

[JumpingJackFlash]

So... VicDiesel and JumpingJackFlash, you both went rather by the melody "itself" than a certain rule (still I don't get them though)? Then again, JJF said to drop the G#, then it's a bit simpler to create chords. Hm... never actually thought of that, I just went by ear. So I might look into that a bit more.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean drop the G# as in remove it from your melody, I meant it is not important when deciding on the key (or the harmony/chord at that point). - Think of it as a little decoration to the melody, not an integral part of it.

By contrast the F-sharps are clearly an important part of the melody as they are long notes, on the beat, and every single F is sharpened.

I said I would write more about harmonisation; - would that be valuable to you, or would I be wasting my time? (I don't mind, but obviously if you're not getting anything out of it, then there is no point).

[VicDiesel]

I did the same back in the day with trial and error for my remix (it's on my page), but it never sounded... well, alive.

Well, what I sketched was very plain. For instance the D / Em / D in the beginning is as vanilla as they come. I would for instance turn the Em into Em7 and put the 7 in the bass. That means that you keep the D in the bass through the chord changes. That makes it a lot more sophisticated to listen to.

And then depending on whether you 're making jazz or trance I'd throw in some Maj7 and Dim chords.....

I meant it is not important when deciding on the key (or the harmony/chord at that point).

Yes it is. That G# indicates an E chord, which is the dominant of A, which is the dominant of D, so clearly the piece modulated from D to its dominant, A, for a little while.

Victor.