Help on understanding time signatures.

[shamann]

No one writes music by application of theory.

I'm guessing you've never listened to Elliott Carter, then? Not missing much, though.

[JumpingJackFlash]

The more you know the better off you are, musically. You can't deny it.

Er.. quite easy to deny that actually. There are thousands of artists who don't know anything about conventional music theory, and they manage to make a lot of great music.

True, but I think the point is, if they knew more, they would be able to make even better music.
You can never know too much. Knowledge is never a bad thing. - You don't have to put everything you know into practice, but extra knowledge gives you more options, and can confirm *why* something sounds better than something else. Knowledge can speed up your working, meaning you can get more done quicker.

Music theory (and other 'rules') are not random instructions designed to arbitrarily confuse people. It is a collection of practises that have been proven (by history or occasionally by science/psychoacoustics) to sound good. It is what man's greatest music uses.

There is certainly a case for arguing that these 'rules' only stifle originality, but they are NOT meant to be adhered to in everything all of the time. If you study Bach for example, you will find what he taught (and what he wrote) is not the same as how he himself worked. - That's because you need to be aware of the 'rules' before you can break them. - In this sense, originality is encouraged, - once you know how and why something works, it is easier to adopt it to suit your own purpose. (For example, first year harmony students are taught not to use diminished or augmented chords because they seldom sound good by themselves. However, once you've mastered the basics (and you understand about preparation and resolution), you can then use these chords for special effects which, in the right context and at the right place, can sound fantastic).

I don't think people are going to agree on this. - Us "dull academics" will generally recommend music theory because it's the way we've learned and it's intuitive to us. People with no musical training are more likely to dismiss the theory as 'too technical' or 'unnecessary' because they are unwilling (for whatever reasons) to put in the time to learn it. It also depends heavily on the type of music you make of course.

[Toxikator]

I agree. The most important skill a musician can learn is the ability to UNlearn everything he knows whenever it becomes necessary.

but Theory is applicable to all genres. People seem to associate theory with complexity but that's not true, either. Theory, after all, gave us the minimalists.

[Amberience]

I think music is something you learn to be good at through trial and experience, just my take on it.

[Toxikator]

You learn to be good at anything by trial and experience, that doesn't mean you'd never study your craft.

[Hovmod]

But music is not comprised of notes and clefs and written theory. Music is comprised of sonic entities, frequencies, and human interaction.

"OK, guys, let's play this song I just wrote. It's real easy. The sonic entities are kind of formant heavy slightly resonant rectified square wave thingies, most of the frequencies are bunched around 2500 Hz. Ready? INTERACT!"

[VicDiesel]

Actually, what happens if you give tab to a guitar player? Can they play it immeidately and at speed? And I don't mean single lines, something serious like a Sor sonata.

What do you mean "speed" ? Speed isn't everything, certainly shouldn't be the aim of guitar music.

I mean the speed at which it was intended to be played. I do lots of classical music. If I'm preparing for a concert with other people (or just playing for hte heck of it) we bring a stack of music and play through it. I and my buddies expect each other to play it sight unseen at close to the right speed and reasonable accuracy.

Command line is faster than a mouse controlling a GUI. Give me a break.

I'm reading KvR while at work. I just fired off a program that will generate thousands of lines of output, but I'm only interested in a certain statistic, for which I want to see what output values it generates.

Code: Select all

 myprogram | tee justincase.log | grep "Number of iterations" | awk '{print $2}' | sort -u

I'd like to see you do that faster. Or even match me by a factor of ten.

Victor.

[VicDiesel]

But music is not comprised of notes and clefs and written theory. Music is comprised of sonic entities, frequencies, and human interaction.

"OK, guys, let's play this song I just wrote. It's real easy. The sonic entities are kind of formant heavy slightly resonant rectified square wave thingies, most of the frequencies are bunched around 2500 Hz. Ready? INTERACT!"

Hilarious.

Where is that quotable thread?

Victor.

[Amberience]

But music is not comprised of notes and clefs and written theory. Music is comprised of sonic entities, frequencies, and human interaction.

"OK, guys, let's play this song I just wrote. It's real easy. The sonic entities are kind of formant heavy slightly resonant rectified square wave thingies, most of the frequencies are bunched around 2500 Hz. Ready? INTERACT!"

You think it's impossible to make music in that way? hehehe, you fool.

[Amberience]

Actually, what happens if you give tab to a guitar player? Can they play it immeidately and at speed? And I don't mean single lines, something serious like a Sor sonata.

What do you mean "speed" ? Speed isn't everything, certainly shouldn't be the aim of guitar music.

I mean the speed at which it was intended to be played. I do lots of classical music. If I'm preparing for a concert with other people (or just playing for hte heck of it) we bring a stack of music and play through it. I and my buddies expect each other to play it sight unseen at close to the right speed and reasonable accuracy.

Command line is faster than a mouse controlling a GUI. Give me a break.

I'm reading KvR while at work. I just fired off a program that will generate thousands of lines of output, but I'm only interested in a certain statistic, for which I want to see what output values it generates.

Code: Select all

 myprogram | tee justincase.log | grep "Number of iterations" | awk '{print $2}' | sort -u

I'd like to see you do that faster. Or even match me by a factor of ten.

Victor.

I'd like to see you record five guitar tracks and record a drumkit via a command line.

[VicDiesel]

I'd like to see you record five guitar tracks and record a drumkit via a command line.

Dunno. Which hosts are commandline driven?

Victor.

PS you didnt' address my "speed" comment. Is tab clear enough that you can hand out parts and people play them more or less at performance level? Standard musicial notation, for all its imperfections, works remarkably well as a communication medium.

[Toxikator]

Not at all true. Only for the very fluent. Most musicians have to run through something at least ONCE to come to grips with it, and tab is much easier to understand. sheet music is only a more effective solution once you're completely fluent in it.

[RTaylor]

I think perhaps I might pick up such CD's, as the past few months i've been in a mind frame of greatly expanding my musical tastes, and it has helped a lot! I have new path ways to walk down, and this always inspires me.

Check your local library. Ours here in Lombard has a goodly collection of ethnic, experimental, classical, folk, etc and the one in downtown Chicago has racks of everything from vinyl to cds, software and books on theory that stretch as far as the eye can see...

[VicDiesel]

i've been in a mind frame of greatly expanding my musical tastes,

Check your local library.

I'll throw in a recommendation for emusic (dot com) as a cheap source of lots of out-of-mainstream music.

They have lots by Khaled, Amadou and Mariam, Ali Farka Toure, .... just to mention some stuff that interests me.

Victor.

[jens]

The more you know the better off you are, musically. You can't deny it.

Er.. quite easy to deny that actually. There are thousands of artists who don't know anything about conventional music theory, and they manage to make a lot of great music.

All dogs have teeth. My cat has teeth. My cat is a dog.

not a valid argument - it's quite hard to argue this at all actually - I could say the number of famous and successful composers who know shit about theory outnumber those who are well educated greatly (and this what was Andy actually meant but you appear to have missed it (deliberately I guess)) but then you'd argue back that their compositions are crap though and then I'd reply with calling you an elitist bastard who just doesn't get what music is actually all about and then you'd call me an idiot (once again ) and then the debate would continue to pointlessly go back and forth. It would be quite hard for each side to prove its point validly within the narrow margins of an internet forum (including the restricted intellectuality of the majority of its members ).


So just let me call you an elitist bastard straight away and be done with it.