The ignorance is bliss fallacy

[nuffink]

"Great music has been made by people with no theory."

True.

"Therefore music theory is useless."

False.



We seem to have to deal with it in every theory thread so we might as well give it a name.







edit: We might as well spell it right too.

[dusted william]

agree.

since all this theory stuff has started I've been creating a song that is purely based on simple theory and chord progressions. It's been pretty fun.

dw

[Hovmod]

...too late.

[Bassballjg]

I myself am musically illiterate, but I never belived that, and never head anyone say that theory is useless. We all actually know and use most of the most essential rules, simply by learning to play an instrument in tune, in key, and on time. A far better corrolary to the idea that much good music has been made by people who don't know theory is to say that it is unnecessary, in the sense that knowledge of music theory is not a prerequisite for creativity. But assimilating the rules in an essential fashion even if unconsciously is however vital to musicianship.

[herodotus]

We seem to have to deal with it in every theory thread so we might as well give it a name.

True.

And a very good name it is. Universal sounding, as if it had been around since Pythagoras.


I am often guilty of throwing little jibes at our current theory of music, because it has some rather embarassing faults.

But whatever its faults, its issues really should be understood and engaged if one considers ones self a thinking person as well as a musician.

In any case, how will music theory ever improve if all of these questions, sometimes even the seemingly silly ones, remain unasked?

The academics have dropped the ball.

For example, their theory of rhythm has advanced not a bit since the invention of mensural notation. In some respects, it has taken a step backward since then. In the meantime, 3/4ths of the worlds music, whether its 'art' music or 'popular' music, is based firmly and thoroughly on an elaborate foundation of rhythm, while the harmonic element so beloved of most theorists is relegated to an elementary supporting role.

In this and in countless other ways, academic music theory misses the point of our modern musical culture.

We can make this theory better. Us. Right here. Today.

With 113,160 members and climbing, we outnumber musicologists by a great deal. And in terms of web presence, kvr completely overshadows any university's music department.

But if people write it all off as this thing that kills inspiration and makes you boring and middle aged, that will never happen.

[Bonteburg]

i agree nuffink, however I think it's better to learn the theoretic bits through experiment and play rather than starting to make music already loaded with numbers and tables.

That said what little music theory i know I value very highly. (church modes, pentatonic, etc).

Marco

[eduardo_b]

...In this and in countless other ways, academic music theory misses the point of our modern musical culture...But if people write it all off as this thing that kills inspiration and makes you boring and middle aged, that will never happen.

Why should music theory need to be coherent with modern musical culture? The two are essentially unattached except for those who attain knowledge of music theory in higher education as part of their degree in music. Are you contending that being involved with creating music without a thorough grounding in music theory is wrong or a problem?

Put another way, what is the point of music theory? I mean beyond learning about it for its own sake. Out of the 113K members (or, more accurately, people who at one time or another registered), how many know of and are actually interested in music theory?

Ignorance may not be bliss, but it isn't necessarily a detriment to those who have talent and can create music while being "ignorant" of music theory.

[herodotus]

Why should music theory need to be coherent with modern musical culture? The two are essentially unattached except for those who attain knowledge of music theory in higher education as part of their degree in music.

Music theory is supposed to be an explanation of what music is and how it works.

So yes, it should be coherent with modern musical culture. Just like dictionaries and books about grammar are supposed to be coherent with modern language.

[Amberience]

never heard anyone say that theory is useless

Nor have I. I did say the other day that it wasn't as important to me as just going with the flow, but I never said it was useless.

[Gregjazz]

You have to know music theory before you can forget it. If that makes sense. Before you can make it an intuition thing, you do have to study it and learn it from a left-brained perspective.

[Guckli]

Nuffink: agreed
Gregjazz: agreed
Herodotus: we're trying, but musicology isn't an exact science... and neither is score writing for that matter. Even JS Bach sounds like shit if you play his works like (or with) a hard quantized sequencer. Equal temperament is one big compromise, and on the contrary to popular belief Bach didn't use it either; by well-tempered he meant Werckmeister temperament. And so on and so forth.
In other words: the more you learn the less you know... but that does give you the opportunity to explore

[himalaya]

never heard anyone say that theory is useless

Nor have I. I did say the other day that it wasn't as important to me as just going with the flow, but I never said it was useless.

Yeah, but I have been almost called a "theory wanker" by a mod (? breaking the forums rules ?) on this board, for suggesting that not having this skill that is contained in music theory may produce simplistic music.


You put it in a more lucid way, Nuffink.

Visibly, or should I say, I believe that some people are born with an inner sense of theory/music skill and others have to study for years to do the same.

[donkey tugger]

"Great music has been made by people with no theory."

True.

"Therefore music theory is useless."

False.



We seem to have to deal with it in every theory thread so we might as well give it a name.







edit: We might as well spell it right too.

Aye, but some people can do it naturally without recourse to I,VVI Bmin7dim etc, as Sascha (bless him!) would confuse. Moi being one of them.

Then again, I did like wee Howard Goodall's tv prog; explained it al without recourse to I,VI, IV, dim7 etc.

Haven't been arsed to play owt in ages, but give me a genre and I reckon I could still do a vague facsimilie (sic?), then some c**t could describe how I did it. Which would be nice.

[Watto]

We can make this theory better. Us. Right here. Today.

What a stirring speech! I hear bells, and trumpets, and choirs! Where do I sign up??

[Watto]

a vague facsimilie

A vague facsimilie??!! Awesome! Can't wait to hear it!