KVR Audio

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:47 am

rachmiel wrote:pop quiz: what famous song by what famous rock group has 4/4 playing against 3/4? hints: k, lz. (no fair looking it up on the web!)

Meaning the basic rhythm is 3/4 and someone plays 4/4 against it?

Dave Brubeck, but he's neither rock, nor a group.

Victor.

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:13 am

> the basic rhythm is 3/4 and someone plays 4/4 against it

yes. or vice-versa, depending on your point of view. :-)

brubeck might have done it, but it's not the classic rock group and song i had in mind.

hint for group: heavy hydrogen.
hint for song: sweater ...

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:37 am

rachmiel wrote:> the basic rhythm is 3/4 and someone plays 4/4 against it

yes. or vice-versa, depending on your point of view.

brubeck might have done it, but it's not the classic rock group and song i had in mind.

hint for group: heavy hydrogen.
hint for song: sweater ...

Led Zeppelin

Kashmir.

Guitar riff in 3/4 Drums in 4/4.

Do I win?

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:47 am

herodotus wrote:Kashmir.

Don't have a recording, and it's not on iTunes, so from memory....

Are you talking about that descending riff? That's 3+3+3+3+2+2 eighth notes. Nothing really polyrhythmic.

Ok, you're probably talking about that tadada guitar rhythm. Right, that's 3/4, but the quarter note is the same as of the drum, so it's not what's commonly called "3 against 4". Meaning: not "3 in the time of 4".

Here, 4 against 3: the main ryhthm is 3/4, but bass and bass drum play in 4.

Victor.

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:58 am

> Led Zeppelin Kashmir

give that man a bronze monkey! :-)

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:06 am

VicDiesel wrote:
herodotus wrote:Kashmir.

Ok, you're probably talking about that tadada guitar rhythm. Right, that's 3/4, but the quarter note is the same as of the drum, so it's not what's commonly called "3 against 4". Meaning: not "3 in the time of 4".

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:13 am

herodotus wrote: cute illustration that one part plays 3 quarter notes in the time of 3 quarter notes of the other part

Thanks for making my point.

Did that link in my post work for you? It was a link to the iTunes store.

Victor.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:25 am

VicDiesel wrote:
herodotus wrote: cute illustration that one part plays 3 quarter notes in the time of 3 quarter notes of the other part
Thanks for making my point.

Did I?

I was just doodling.

But whatever your point, at least two people (Rachmiel and myself) regard Kashmir as illustrating a polyrhythm.

Though one should note that these phenomena are not well documented, so the nomenclature is still working itself out.

Did that link in my post work for you? It was a link to the iTunes store.

It just brought me to the iTunes home page.

I am afraid I have never been to iTunes much, so I don't really know how to navigate the site.

Was it supposed to bring me to a particular track?

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:51 am

herodotus wrote:Was it supposed to bring me to a particular track?

Yeah. Jean-Luc Ponty, album: Tchokola, track: N' Fan Mot. Cute African polyrhythm of true 3 over 4.

Victor.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:27 pm

@rachmiel: Kashmir by Zep.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Toxikator wrote:@rachmiel: Kashmir by Zep.

Phew! How did you guess?

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:33 pm

I know, I hit reply and got distracted by YouTube...
and then by the time I hit post two pages had appeared

What I was TRYING to find was the greatest example of polyrhythms of all time:

It's MATH!

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:17 pm

rachmiel wrote:pop quiz: what famous song by what famous rock group has 4/4 playing against 3/4? hints: k, lz. (no fair looking it up on the web!)

There is one Led Zeppelin song that sounds kind of like that, but not sure, I'd have to figure it out on paper to see how the notes fall. "Black Dog" is the one I am thinking of. Am I close?

Another one that is real cool (by the way) is "The Attitude Song" by Steve Vai. He plays the main riff in 7/16, but the backing part, drums, etc. is 4/4.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:24 pm

Examigan wrote:Another one that is real cool (by the way) is "The Attitude Song" by Steve Vai. He plays the main riff in 7/16, but the backing part, drums, etc. is 4/4.

I think Vai was with Zappa when Frank recorded Ya Hozna, which has a 5/4 shifting against 6/4.

Btw, nothing beats Bill Bruford who playing on his own a 15/8 rhythm against a 2/4 hi-hat. My mind would explode, trying to do that.

Also btw, all this is child's play compared to what happens in Indian percussion music.

Victor.

rachmiel · Post by **rachmiel** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:38 pm

> all this is child's play compared to what happens in Indian percussion music

yes. :-)