The ignorance is bliss fallacy

[Hovmod]

Can we have an hpc for music theory as well?

[Amberience]

Who is really the idiot?

The person comfortable with their lot. The person who is happy making the music they make in the way they make it and isn't afraid to let people know that.

or...

The person who insists that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. That there is such a thing as inferiority and superiority when it comes to music.

It's all expression, and even though I detest some forms of expression, I wouldn't say it was inferior to my own.

But hey, I'm a liberal pinko commie bastard who thinks we should all just try to get along best we can.

I haven't read anywhere in this thread that people have said theory is useless. I have read a lot of people saying things like "theory doesn't mean an awful lot to me" ... but hey.. recognising that would allow for subjectivity wouldn't it?

Mr Tox.. you make a post and for all your words and bravado you could've just replaced it with "you're all thick as pigshit!" and said the same thing.

Essentially you're trying to dictate to us what our intentions mean and whether what we create is good or not, based on a set of theories collected together by society over hundreds of years.

Modern music theory cannot deal with a lot of modern music, so they just call it noise. They cannot write down or track a hell of a lot of modern music, so they just call it "sound effects" or "atmospherics"

This just shows us that theory isn't the driving force behind music. It never has been. It is just a tool. It is not a collection of "the way things work in music" that is just a really narrow minded interpretation of what theory is.

It is a tool, just like any other device.

[herodotus]

(having just read 5 pages of the most testicle-headed crap I have ever seen)..........Damn.

Just when the argument was losing steam.........


Will it ever end?

[metrosechual]

nah, toxi had to throw a couple more horse balls into it.

[Amberience]

Y'know what, apart from a few grazes with Nuffink, I don't feel like I've talked down to anyone in this thread, regardless of their stance on theory.

So it pisses me off when people who have the "other" stance to mine talk down to me like I'm a piece of shit. I had enough respect for you Tox to not call you stupid, and then you talk about us as if we're retards because we have different views.

[metrosechual]

i just think a balanced view is nice. I know plenty of guitarists for instance, who know plenty of theory/technique. One is even signed to the same label RUSTY COOLEY is !!! (wow! big deals!) but umm, i listen to him play and i just hear a flutter of notes. Nothing substantial. Almost like

MATH IN ACTION

[Toxikator]

Mr Tox.. you make a post and for all your words and bravado you could've just replaced it with "you're all thick as pigshit!" and said the same thing.

Not entirely. My post goes on to explain, in some way, WHY you're all thick as pigshit

Essentially you're trying to dictate to us what our intentions mean and whether what we create is good or not, based on a set of theories collected together by society over hundreds of years.

When the hell did I ever say something even close to that? My point all along has been that no one here really understands what theory is at all. Music Theory, in a grand sense, is "what makes music tick". When you make music, you employ it. All studying it does is let you know WHAT you're doing!

The reason, again, that you're all (or at least many of you) are thick as pigshit is your continual insistence that studying theory somehow detracts from your musical ability.

That statement is akin to claiming "I make halfway decent clocks by screwing shit together until it works, what reason is there to study watchmaking", or even worse, "If I were to study watchmaking I would lose all my creativity and start making rotten watches".

Modern music theory cannot deal with a lot of modern music, so they just call it noise. They cannot write down or track a hell of a lot of modern music, so they just call it "sound effects" or "atmospherics"

That statement just proves my point. You assume that Music Theory doesn't extend beyond the realm of what you get in an entry-level textbook. If you were to study Cage, for example, you'd learn an awful lot about the theory of atonality, nonharmonicism, the use of silence, and in general "what constitutes music". "Sound effects" are "percussion", played in a manner designed to emulate real-world sounds (the term escapes me, do some research on Musique Concrete), discussions of postmodern musical perspective explore theories (which I subscribe strongly to) based on the ideas that "anything can go in, music is only as valuable as the end result" and "Music is any sound which is meant to be heard as music".

The fact that you assume that theory is somehow incapable of grasping the "far out" concepts introduced by ambient music is just plain silly.

This just shows us that theory isn't the driving force behind music. It never has been. It is just a tool. It is not a collection of "the way things work in music" that is just a really narrow minded interpretation of what theory is.

How is the broadest definition available for "Music Theory" in any way narrow-minded?

What you've just said is that it is "narrow-minded" to assume that music theory can encompass areas such as ambient music and experimentalism, while the "open-minded" counterpart is to assume that Music Theory only applies to very specific genres and ideas.

It is a tool, just like any other device.

No, an instrument or a sequencer is a tool, just like Telescopes and Barometers and Seismometers

Music Theory is no more a "tool" than physics itself.

You (all) seem to be under the misguided impression that Music Theory is a big ol' book of rules which you must follow, and that therefore the best way to utilize it is to employ it when necessary and disregard it when not.

Music Theory is not at all about that. It is about understanding what makes music and how it works. The more you know about theory, the more you know about music. It is the Theory of how the elements of music interact and what they do. Hence, they named it "Music Theory" and not "Some Music Rules We Think You Ought To Follow"

[metrosechual]

you are still an fuckin asswipe who puts words in peoples mouths, are you simply insane toxicator?

youre in your own little fruity f**king world, and have absolutely no idea what is being talked about here, but decide to get on your soapbox and bitch. I guess searching the rest of your posts says the same about you. No idea what is going on, just a bitch with tourette's on a soapbox (with antibiotics for good measure)!!

get over it.

[Amberience]

"The reason, again, that you're all (or at least many of you) are thick as pigshit is your continual insistence that studying theory somehow detracts from your musical ability."

Tox. I never said that, so learn to read. Please.

And I'm taking a Sonic Arts course, we've studied Cage and atonality and silence and all the rest of it. We've also studied musique concrete.

[Hovmod]

My point all along has been that no one here really understands what theory is at all.

[metrosechual]

educate your assthetic people!

[metrosechual]

"The reason, again, that you're all (or at least many of you) are thick as pigshit is your continual insistence that studying theory somehow detracts from your musical ability."

Tox. I never said that, so learn to read. Please.

I dont recall ANYONE really saying this in this thread -- he's simply insane.

[Toxikator]

you are still an fuckin asswipe who puts words in peoples mouths, are you simply insane toxicator?

youre in your own little fruity f**king world, and have absolutely no idea what is being talked about here, but decide to get on your soapbox and bitch. I guess searching the rest of your posts says the same about you. No idea what is going on, just a bitch with tourette's on a soapbox (with antibiotics for good measure)!!

get over it.

Wow. Now THAT contributed a lot to the conversation, and CERTAINLY helped to disprove me. You must surely be enlightened and intelligent, you know, refuting my point like that. I mean "tourette's" AND "soabbox" (twice)!

I was wrong about you, Metro, you're not incapable of higher thought at all.

[Hovmod]

...

[metrosechual]

enough trolling for today