The ignorance is bliss fallacy

[Lunatique]

Y'know what, I just hate the idea of music being boiled down to logic. If that makes me a dumbass so be it, but I'd rather stick with my magic staff and my wizard powers. I am happy to be an ignorant imbecile in this case. I don't give a rats ass what it means to you for me to be like this.

Merry Christmas.

Does it have to be either/or?

Do you hate the idea that literature need to follow the logic of grammar? What about paintings being boiled down to the foundations of color theory, composition, perspective, anatomy, values..etc? What about photography being boiled down to the combinations of shutter speed, aperture, ISO, white balance, lighting, metering, and basic visual art foundations..etc? What about films being boiled down to the multiple disciplines of cinematography, screen writing, directing, acting, sound design, film scoring, editing, special effects, post production..etc?

In just about all cases of creativity, some kind of universal theory/rules has been developed collectively by all practitioners of the craft over the history of civilization, and are constantly refined/expanded to encompass all new developments and trends. Sure, people do experimental works all the time, but as we've seen in our lifetime thus far, experimental works that try to break all established conventions don't always work because many result in something incoherent and convoluted.

This isn't a "us vs them" situation. This is about the fact that everything human beings do can be studied and perfected, and it's in our nature to want to do so (be it perfection in your personal growth, or comparing yourself to those that came before or are better than you). How far you want to take it is up to you. Some people are competitive, some aren't. Both sides can still enjoy the process of making and listening to music.

[metrosechual]

this thread should be a good reason for people NOT to learn about theory no offense. But all this to sell a plugin???!?!?!?

hehe

Nah. If I desperately wanted to sell a plugin I'd have new versions on the front page every other day (it works).
I started this thread as a lightning conductor. As it stands it looks like it's going to do a job of strimming some of the undergrowth as well. Bonus.

Carry on weeds.

of course, you have posted many times here as well, have you made a light to attract yourself? Silly bug.

and who said i was talking about chordspace?

[shinken]

this thread should be a good reason for people NOT to learn about theory no offense. But all this to sell a plugin???!?!?!?

hehe

Nah. If I desperately wanted to sell a plugin I'd have new versions on the front page every other day (it works).
I started this thread as a lightning conductor. As it stands it looks like it's going to do a job of strimming some of the undergrowth as well. Bonus.

Carry on weeds.

You and Herodotus set up this thread as a deliberate troll, so that the Music Theory forum's other posts wouldn't be interrupted, while a farcical "dukeing-out" carries on between so-called theorists (I'll come to this in a minute) and the people who resist (who are made out to be "anti-theory" proponents). You did this because you wanted the Music Theory forum, to increase your profile and sell your Casio-type fingered chord mode plug-in in the future.

If you want to be taken seriously, first answer this:

1) What is your background in music (formal education)?
2) Where can we go and listen to your music (because the proof is in the pudding and at the moment you're just an asshole with an opinion)?

KVR is a forum about plugins. I'm rather glad your plugin was cracked, because from your attitude it seems you have a lot to learn about respecting other people. But as I say, at the moment you're just a troll so pull out your credentials and let's talk.

[nuffink]

this thread should be a good reason for people NOT to learn about theory no offense. But all this to sell a plugin???!?!?!?

hehe

Nah. If I desperately wanted to sell a plugin I'd have new versions on the front page every other day (it works).
I started this thread as a lightning conductor. As it stands it looks like it's going to do a job of strimming some of the undergrowth as well. Bonus.

Carry on weeds.

You and Herodotus set up this thread as a deliberate troll, so that the Music Theory forum's other posts wouldn't be interrupted, while a farcical "dukeing-out" carries on between so-called theorists (I'll come to this in a minute) and the people who resist (who are made out to be "anti-theory" proponents). You did this because you wanted the Music Theory forum, to increase your profile and sell your Casio-type fingered chord mode plug-in in the future.

If you want to be taken seriously, first answer this:

1) What is your background in music (formal education)?
2) Where can we go and listen to your music (because the proof is in the pudding and at the moment you're just an asshole with an opinion)?

KVR is a forum about plugins. I'm rather glad your plugin was cracked, because from your attitude it seems you have a lot to learn about respecting other people. But as I say, at the moment you're just a troll so pull out your credentials and let's talk.

I set up this thread to point out a logical fallacy. Nearly everyone understood the point.




Nearly everyone.

[Amberience]

NO ONE EVER SAID MUSIC THEORY IS USELESS!

again...

NO ONE EVER SAID MUSIC THEORY IS USELESS!

[Topiness]

But imagine it is the 1850's, and there is a guy interested in quantum physics. What should he do?

should he go and read up on all the existing physics literature, while at the same time experimenting with subatomic particles? or should he just say to himrself, 'hmm, this doesn't look much like normal physics, i'll just see what i can find out about this subatomic stuff.'.

If he goes studying the existing theory, who knows what would happen? Maybe he would manage to combine the two and come up with a general theory of relativity (good). Or maybe he'd get depressed about the fact that no-one else seems to understand what he was doing, and waste his time reading books that are not directly relevant (bad).

So, FOR THAT GIVEN INDIVIDUAL, at THAT GIVEN TIME, there is NO CERTAINTY that learning the existing theory would be a good thing.

This is not to say that LEARNING is not good. the guy is learning. But it may not be his job to integrate what he learns with the body of existing knowledge.

and this is my point: The statement 'Ignorance is bliss' -

- IN GENERAL, for the music community AS A WHOLE, is false.
- FOR A GIVEN INDIVIDUAL, at a GIVEN TIME, may be TRUE.

Firstly, quantumn physics in the 1850's? What the f**k are on about their mate?
There was no quantumn physics in the 1850's.Sure it was going on all around us, but humanity at that time was blissfully unaware.

The basis of quantumn physics is Max Plank's experiments in the 1890's. The concept of atomic particles was still contentious in the middle nineteenth century, let alone sub atomic particles.
There existence was'nt established until the 1897 through the work of JJ Thompson, and the Orbital theory of Atoms was'nt consolidated until the early 1900's, by Ernest Rutherford and Niels Bohr. I had to put you straight there before you continued.

Oh dear, you've been overdoing it. Did you see the word 'imagine'?

That was my point entirely - that this IMAGINARY guy would be doing his thing in a time when it was unprecedented, and there was no relevant theory to help him.

get it?

So, it might be somewhat analoguous to a glitch musician, in, say, the mid 90's.

get it?

The physics metaphor wasn't my idea, but was following on from earlier in the thread.

[metrosechual]

so, all the great stuff going on in the theory forum presents:

polyrythyms!

[Topiness]

so, all the great stuff going on in the theory forum presents:

polyrythyms!

There seems to be plenty of friction there too...

[herodotus]

this thread should be a good reason for people NOT to learn about theory no offense. But all this to sell a plugin???!?!?!?

hehe

Nah. If I desperately wanted to sell a plugin I'd have new versions on the front page every other day (it works).
I started this thread as a lightning conductor. As it stands it looks like it's going to do a job of strimming some of the undergrowth as well. Bonus.

Carry on weeds.

You and Herodotus set up this thread as a deliberate troll, so that the Music Theory forum's other posts wouldn't be interrupted, while a farcical "dukeing-out" carries on between so-called theorists (I'll come to this in a minute) and the people who resist (who are made out to be "anti-theory" proponents). You did this because you wanted the Music Theory forum, to increase your profile and sell your Casio-type fingered chord mode plug-in in the future.

1. nuffink and I aren't in together on anything. We disagree about almost everything. But he does at least possess wit.

2. This debate, in the same exact terms, was really common on this site long before Chordspace was released. Thread after thread about theoretical issues were derailed by this debate. This thread isn't a troll, it's public sanitation.

3. I suggested this forum and got the ball rolling, but Ben created it himself. It's his site and he alone can create forums here.

[Toxikator]

6) In the end, the pleasure you derive from making music is the ONLY thing that should matter. Who cares of others feel your music is crap if you enjoy every minute of making it? How advanced of a musician you want to become is your personal choice.

I agreed with you up to this point. I have to dissent here, I would argue that the relevance is the end result, not the process of creation. And, while it's another (very interesting) discussion about your perspective on art (here, modern v. postmodern) and music, it also doesn't necessarily affect this thread. I just wanted to make clear that you don't speak for all of us w/ that one.

[metrosechual]

so, all the great stuff going on in the theory forum presents:

polyrythyms!

There seems to be plenty of friction there too...

tons. perhaps thats ANOtHER waste disposal thread?

[nuffink]

so, all the great stuff going on in the theory forum presents:

polyrythyms!

There seems to be plenty of friction there too...

tons. perhaps thats ANOtHER waste disposal thread?

Nice sig. Shame you won't be around too much longer. Any publicity, as they say.

[metrosechual]

whoa, hold it right there.

Why wont i be around? Why the threats? What have i done? Is it simply because i pointed out the inherent fallacy of your now stated reason for starting this thread?

gotta love the power of the iron fist

[Toxikator]

I hardly think it fair to assume this thread was started over ChordSpace. I mean based on what? the link in his sig?

that's a big ol' stretch.

[metrosechual]

I hardly think it fair to assume this thread was started over ChordSpace. I mean based on what? the link in his sig?

that's a big ol' stretch.

ummm, i wasnt saying that.

but thanks for playing!