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kentrel · Post by **kentrel** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:54 pm

Hey guys!

I was watching the excellent documentary "How Music Works" and it discussed the subject I'm currently interested in - chords, chord progressions and harmony. I'm so interested since I know so little about it and am desperate to learn more.

The presenter said that every note is associated with 6 chords, and then showed this nifty chart for the note "C".

Now, since I watched this I learned some more theory and figured out that each of these chords contain "C", which is one reason why they're associated with it. He went onto say that you could pick any of those chords to harmonise "C", depending on your own personal taste. However, what I don't understand is why these 6 chords were picked. The presenter specifically stated 6 chords but didn't say why those particular 6. Of course, there are many other chords that also sound good with "C" so why were those left out. If they were the "I, VI, i, ii" chords I might understand

So can anyone elaborate as to why those 6 chords were considered important, and how I can go about making a chart for all the other notes? Apologies if this has an incredibly simple answer, but I can't figure it out.

- Kentrel

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:41 pm

Hi Kentrel, my guess (and it IS a guess...) is that these are the only chords that contain C in their basic triad chord. i.e. C is fundamental to the sound of each of these chords.

Edit: Ps. I wonder if the clue is in the word 'harmonise' with (in this case C). By comparison you say "sound good with" - which is different.

Kitchen Sink · Post by **Kitchen Sink** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:56 pm

What six chords? That's not correct. You can harmonise C with just about anything like Cdim, Adim, F#dim, B+8, Dbmaj7, G11, Eb6, Dm7, Gsus4, Bb9, ...

Or try F#13! Or Ab7+9!!! Rock on music theory wizards.

What need is there for theory mumbo jumbo like this, if all it creates is confusion?

Maybe the guy just didn't know what he was talking about. Anyway, why should you care?

kentrel · Post by **kentrel** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:09 pm

Kitchen Sink wrote:What six chords? That's not correct. You can harmonise C with just about anything like Cdim, Adim, F#dim, B+8, Dbmaj7, G11, Eb6, Dm7, Gsus4, Bb9, ... Or try F#13! Or Ab7+9!!!

Yes, I know you can harmonise C with a lot of chords, but I'm asking why those six chords specifically were chosen. When it comes to music theory I'm the first to admit I don't know what I'm talking about

But it seemed to me that the presenter, Howard Goodall, did know what he was talking about, and was singling those out for a special reason. Maybe someone who's seen "How Music Works" can clarify this better.

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:10 pm

Bleh.

kentrel · Post by **kentrel** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:13 pm

Deric wrote: Edit: Ps. I wonder if the clue is in the word 'harmonise' with (in this case C). By comparison you say "sound good with" - which is different.

Yes, it was all about harmony. "Sounds good with" was my own paraphrasing, which is a faux pas on my part that's just confusing the issue.

The section in the documentary was on harmony and this chart was shown while the presenter was harmonizing the melody of "Silent Night"; he was showing that for the note "C" he had six chords to pick from depending the mood of the piece. He showed that one chord made it sound "too gloomy" while another was "just right". However, I'm still at a loss as to why he chose to show those specific 6 chords in the first place.

Modeler · Post by **Modeler** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:19 pm

kentrel wrote:I'm still at a loss as to why he chose to show those specific 6 chords in the first place.

Have a read of this:

http://www.chordmaps.com/

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:21 pm

Seems like a pretty lame formulation to me. Harmony extends beyond triads and has done for centuries.

C is the minor 7th of D so it fits on D 7th and D min 7th
C is the major 7th of Db so it fits on Db Ma7
C is the major 6th of Eb so it fits on Eb ma6 or Ebmi 6th
etc etc

You might chose any of the above chords (or any of dozens of other possibilities) or extensions of them (Eg Dmi 11, Eb ma 6/9) to harmonize a C melody note. You would make this choice according to what sounds right for the style you are playing and you would also be looking at what the next chord you will move to is - how the overall chord progression will flow.

The obvious thing to do is go to school on the progressions used to harmonise melodies in songs you know.

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:21 pm

kentral, what I was trying to get at (with the Ps.) was that you mentioned VI, ii, iii chords (the I chord does have C in it) and neither of these have C in the chord (in its basic triad).

I haven't tried this, but I guess (I'm the second to admit that I know next-to-nothing about music theory btw...) that if you take each of the twelve notes (C, C#, D, D#, etc) you may find that for each of these notes there are only six BASIC TRIADS that contain that note. i.e. In the example in your picture (very useful btw) each of those chords has C either it's 1st, 3rd, or 5th.

Edit: Ps. That is 'why' I think he chose those chords...

WoJ · Post by **WoJ** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:24 pm

as deric said they are chords that contain C as one of the notes in the basic triad. Aside from that i have no idea. I belive it is a simple diagram to show this triad relationship.

It is by no means a definitive chart showing how C associates with/can be used with other chords - its a simple harmony diagram.

The note C can be associated with many more chords/intervals. When used as an extension to a chord it can completely change the sound of that chord, and on top of that you have the note spacings too (as in how notes within a chord are spread out/aranged accross the keyboard).

WoJ · Post by **WoJ** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:31 pm

"he had six chords to pick from depending the mood of the piece. He showed that one chord made it sound "too gloomy" while another was "just right"."

Fiar enough. Perhaps he was showing how on a basic level triadic chords can alter the mood of the piece quite dramaticaly, so that people with basic theory can use the diagram to create solid bases for compositions/harmony.

It seems like the show was made for begginers, right? so its just a quick and easy way of assigning chords to a melody (well, not even a melody in this case! lol just a 1 note, now that is basic.)

WoJ

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:43 pm

I would think these were chosen because the C functions as 1 3 or 5 in each of these chords
1 in C and Cm
3 in Am and Ab
5 in F and Fm

in jazz theory this can get extended to chords where the C would function as the 7 like a Dmaj7

chords are my special interest
I would recommend as a very gentle, and very useful practical songwriting theory starter any of the Rikky Rooksby books
his songwriting, songwriting for guitar, songwriting for keyboard covers a lot of ground very well as far as basic popular songwriting goes. and what i appreciated about his approach was that it concentrated on chords.
once you get into jazz theory a lot of approaches concentrate on chords, but the problem I encountered was that there are a a lot of different schools and I ended up piscking up a lot of books until I could begin to see the relationship between systems. If you want to go that far, I;d recommend John Valerio Jazz Piano work.

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:31 pm

The following appears to be the case:

If any given note (X) is extended to form its Major scale (X Major) then the both the Major and Minor (triad) chords built from the fourth degree, the Minor chord built from the sixth degree, and the Major chord built from the flatted sixth degree (all of the scale X Major) all contain the note X.

I think that is what the diagram represents, so from here it is easy to construct (or imagine) such a diagram for ANY note...

Edit: Ps. Result - that'll be useful (for me at least!).

MookTek · Post by **MookTek** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:57 pm

The chart shows all the triads in the key of C that include the note C. Here's a list of all the triads in the key of C:

C Major: C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C
C Minor: Cm Ddim Eb Fm Gm Ab Bb Cm

Adaerus · Post by **Adaerus** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:05 pm

In clasical terms to harmonize means to make something pleasant sounding. Back then when people thought of theorising music, pleasant sounding was a bit different from what is pleasant today. For example a dominant 7h sounded wrong and avoided. Even later one could not throw in a 7th chord without preparing it first and then resolving it. It was a dissonant chord. Now our ears evolved and 7th chords are pleasant just by themselves.
I'd look at the chart from the classical musical theory/harmony point of view which goes back to the basics.

Six Chords