polyrhythms

[VicDiesel]

I am trying to describe a general law that explains disparate phenomena. So far no one has disproved this law.

If it's any comfort to you, that law cannot be disproved. Ultimately you can always drill down to a grid with spacing equal to Planck time. That's 10^{-34} second. Light doesn't move as far as the width of an atom in that amount of time.

See what I mean by the difference between true and helpful?

Victor.

[DWb]

I am trying to describe a general law that explains disparate phenomena. So far no one has disproved this law.

I'd have said 'definition that encompasses disparate phenomena' rather than 'general law', but yes, I'd agree that you've successfully done that.

I have tried to show how polyrhythms that use rhythmic cells as units are related to polyrhythms that use single notes as units. I have given plentiful diagrams to make these relationships plain.

So far, no one has disproved this relationship.

Again, that's because afaict it's true. Assuming we ignore repeating units with irrational lengths on the grounds that it'll meet up to any degree of precision you like eventually.

Again no one has proven this wrong (which would be fine by me, by the way. That is when progress is made) They have just said that I am 'going at it backwards' or said 'you are technically correct but not helpful' or something similar.

But general laws are very rarely helpful in their basic form. They address not the needs of learners, but the nature of the subject under discussion.

But if you're stating that there's an underlying similarity between two things that function differently, you need to get something interesting out of it. And to me, 'these two are both cases of the same general definition but that definition isn't a useful or natural way of thinking about one of them' isn't particularly interesting.

I guess where it is going to get interesting is looking at the borderline between 'rhythmic cells' and 'layered meters' - ie how rapidly do your cells have to repeat before you hear the whole block as a single metric unit and the repeating rhythms as different subdivisions of that unit.

[herodotus]

In an effort to be helpful, I started another thread, just for examples, diagrams,.mid and.mp3 files and such.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2299630

Hopefully we can keep the controversy in this thread, so that the other can have a better signal to noise ratio.

[VicDiesel]

In an effort to be helpful, I started another thread, just for examples, diagrams,.mid and.mp3 files and such.

And amazingly, none of the examples are of the Kashmir kind; they are all what I considered the basic definition of polyrhythm.

Oh well.

Victor.

[Watto]

Stop it!!!!

[herodotus]

In an effort to be helpful, I started another thread, just for examples, diagrams,.mid and.mp3 files and such.

And amazingly, none of the examples are of the Kashmir kind; they are all what I considered the basic definition of polyrhythm.

Oh well.

Victor.

Wrong

This is the kind of polyrhythm you were talking about:




This is the kind of polyrhythm that I was talking about:



This is your definition (from page 3):

I would give as a definition of a poly-rhythm "x equally long notes in the time of y equally (but differently) long notes, where x is not y".

Clearly that doesn't apply to this:




or this:



or this:



or this:



In fact for each different set of numbers I started with the first kind of polyrhythm ('your' kind) and added various examples of the second kind of polyrhythm ('my' kind), to show how closely they are related.

Do I really have to do more diagrams??

They take forever!

Stop it!!!!

Never!!

[VicDiesel]

Do I really have to do more diagrams??

Nah. I just briefly glanced over your post in the other thread and saw to my delight that what I think of as polyrhythm was well represented.

Victor.

[rp314]

Those looking for another example of something along these lines, explicitly described, might want to check out Zappa's "Weasels Ripped My Flesh". In track 4 titled "Toads of the Short Forest", at about the half way point Frank says:

"At this very moment on the stage we have: Drummer A playing in 7/8; Drummer B playing in 3/4; the bass playing in 3/4; the organ playing in 5/8; the tamborine playing in 3/4; and the alto sax blowing his nose."

There are many examples out there but leave it to FZ to tell you about it while it's happening. If someone just starting out were to take that Mothers Of Invention CD and learn everything that Frank did compositionally, IMO they'd be getting quite an education.

[metrosechual]

pop quiz: what famous song by what famous rock group has 4/4 playing against 3/4? hints: k, lz. (no fair looking it up on the web!)

umm, didnt we already go over this?

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