KVR Audio

radiant.city · Post by **radiant.city** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:00 pm

They're major and minor triads containing the note C. (Note that we're not talking about augmented or diminished triads.)

Yes, it's possible to stack thirds over and under triads-- you could think of a seventh chord as a triad with a note above or below it, or an eleventh chord as two triads stacked. The triad is the basic unit of actual diatonic harmony, which in spite of the numerous harmonic advances of the last 150 years is still the predominant system used in popular music, and as such enjoys a particular importance.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:23 pm

kentrel wrote:

As Deric and others have pointed out it's no more than the diatonic triads which contain C. A bit of eye candy for the program but not of much use otherwise.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:09 pm

nuffink wrote:
kentrel wrote:
As Deric and others have pointed out it's no more than the diatonic triads which contain C. A bit of eye candy for the program but not of much use otherwise.

you could of added more eye candy if you had enough ink

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:20 pm

nuffink wrote:
kentrel wrote:
As Deric and others have pointed out it's no more than the diatonic triads which contain C. A bit of eye candy for the program but not of much use otherwise.

If one had replaced F minor with G major, it would have made more sense.

Then you would have:
The tonic major on C
The tonic minor on C
The dominant major of C
The subdominant major of C
The relative minor of C
The relative major of the tonic minor.

But the absence of the dominant (G major, in this case) makes the whole thing just a bit confusing.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:33 pm

It's stupid anyway because you can't just "use any of these chords".

I mean yes, you can, but if your melody is built on C Major, harmonizing the note "C" with Ab major breaks key and sounds silly (usually).

A rule of thumb would be to first determine scale and then progress with with harmonization. If you play the note "C", then diatonically the only chords you can choose are A minor, C major, and F Major (vi, I, IV).

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:44 pm

Given that I know next-to-nothing about this the following might be rubbish but...

The OP didn't mention 'key' at all. He(?) just mentioned the 'note' C. Surely this is quite different from considering any 'key'.

All of the chords listed are basic triads that also contain the 'C'. I don't think this has anything to with being 'diatonic to a key'.

I think that is the point the (programme) presenter was getting at, no?

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:49 pm

Deric wrote:Given that I know next-to-nothing about this the following might be rubbish but...

The OP didn't mention 'key' at all. He(?) just mentioned the 'note' C. Surely this is quite different from considering any 'key'.

All of the chords listed are basic triads that also contain the 'C'. I don't think this has anything to with being 'diatonic to a key'.

I think that is the point the (programme) presenter was getting at, no?

You're absolutely right.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:51 pm

Sort of. But remember that his "rules" don't work in any diatonic context.

Let me preface the following rant by saying that it is confined to the principles of diatonic harmonization. Get off my back.

whenever you write a melody it will be in a key. So when "harmonizing" the note C, you can't just pick any old chord from that hexagon until you get a nice sounding one. You must choose your chord based on key. Yes, those six chords contain the note C, but that's not the sole criteria for harmonization. The note "Ab" does not appear anywhere in the C major scale... so if you were to harmonize the note "C" for a melody written in C major with this chord, it would sound out-of-place as you broke key. If you were in A minor and you harmonized your "C" with c minor you'd get the same results; bad sound from a broken key.

Now, OUTSIDE diatonic harmony you have what are called secondary chords (typically secondary dominants or leading tones) but there's a whole other system for their motion and resolution... and then you have chromatic harmony, but that's not material for an entry-level topic like basic diatonic harmonization.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:54 pm

herodotus wrote:If one had replaced F minor with G major, it would have made more sense.

But the absence of the dominant (G major, in this case) makes the whole thing just a bit confusing.

not at all. Can you imagine the sound of both B and D being sounded alongside C? Especially with C as the tonic?

That can have a cool effect but it's certainly not the kind of thing you'd employ in standard harmonization of that note.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:44 am

You can make a chord out of any notes. Its where you take those notes that determines the relationships.

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:51 am

Toxikator wrote:
herodotus wrote:If one had replaced F minor with G major, it would have made more sense.

But the absence of the dominant (G major, in this case) makes the whole thing just a bit confusing.
not at all. Can you imagine the sound of both B and D being sounded alongside C? Especially with C as the tonic?

That can have a cool effect but it's certainly not the kind of thing you'd employ in standard harmonization of that note.

You misunderstand me.

I was talking about closely related chords in terms of functional harmony, not chords sounding at the same time.

But I didn't see the show in question, so I am probably missing something.

shaun75035 · Post by **shaun75035** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:57 am

What are "chords"?

Heh heh, just kidding

Six Chords