the theory is everything phallus see?
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- KVRAF
- 7315 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 3476 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from NE Ohio, USA
I started to reply "Don't be a dick" but decided better 
But no, theory is not everything. I have written theoretically-correct but mediocre-sounding music before (try writing everything but the bass line in parallel triads, for example - bleah).
Doug
But no, theory is not everything. I have written theoretically-correct but mediocre-sounding music before (try writing everything but the bass line in parallel triads, for example - bleah).
Doug
Logic is a pretty flower that smells bad - Spock, in "I, Mudd"
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm
For a good time click http://www.belindabedekovic.com/video_fl_en.htm
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
This thread reached eight pages, and we never did figure out why people get so emotional about this stuff.
It's the only kvr subject that predictably generates this much controversy.
Other than religion.
And politics.
And Mac vs. PC
And Warez.
And file sharing.
And using uncleared samples.
And MySpace.
And the middle east
And Trent Reznor.
And Christina Aguilera.
And vegeterianism.
And, of course, using loops.
It's the only kvr subject that predictably generates this much controversy.
Other than religion.
And politics.
And Mac vs. PC
And Warez.
And file sharing.
And using uncleared samples.
And MySpace.
And the middle east
And Trent Reznor.
And Christina Aguilera.
And vegeterianism.
And, of course, using loops.
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- KVRist
- 327 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Ohio, USA
Toxikator, I do see the quotes but I want to possibly clarify this.Toxikator wrote:parallel traids aren't really "theoretically correct" from any voice-writing guidelines I'm familiar with.
Parallel fifths is considered weak movement, mainly because the ear tells us so. While parallel triads can be used effectively, you are correct in that it is considered poor part writing to use, mainly due to the lack of interest it provides the listener.
Of course, Copland used parallel fifths and octaves to great effect, but was usually lulling the listener to sleep so he could wake them up with a musical sledgehammer later.
My $.02...
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- "The" Jazz
- 4614 posts since 18 Aug, 2004 from California, United States
Hear of fauxbordon?Toxikator wrote:parallel traids aren't really "theoretically correct" from any voice-writing guidelines I'm familiar with.
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- KVRAF
- 1891 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Columbus,Ohio
It's a theme on KVR to always get extremely emotional over...well...just about everything. Everyone has it their way, and according to them it is the only way it SHOULD be.
"You are going to let the fear of poverty govern your life and your reward will be that you will eat, but you will not live."
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- KVRAF
- 3505 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
All the best poets couldn't hold a pen.
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 5 Jul, 2004 from Gaithersburg, MD
There's a reason Copland could write parallel fifths and get away with it, and it's the same reason you can too...mmichalski59 wrote:Toxikator, I do see the quotes but I want to possibly clarify this.Toxikator wrote:parallel traids aren't really "theoretically correct" from any voice-writing guidelines I'm familiar with.
Parallel fifths is considered weak movement, mainly because the ear tells us so. While parallel triads can be used effectively, you are correct in that it is considered poor part writing to use, mainly due to the lack of interest it provides the listener.
Of course, Copland used parallel fifths and octaves to great effect, but was usually lulling the listener to sleep so he could wake them up with a musical sledgehammer later.
My $.02...
Theory is not a set of rules that you have to follow, it's an collection of information, assembled by analysis, on how and why music 'works' the way it does. Many of those rules (e.g., parallel fifths) apply to certain specific styles and eras (e.g., 16th century counterpoint) and not necessarily to others. I will give you a million dollars if a theory teacher ever told any of you that you couldn't write parallel fifths in your original modern music. The only rules for modern music are the ones you set for yourself, and any theory teacher worth their salt would tell you exactly the same thing.
The single greatest contribution to theory ever made was made, ironically, by someone who renounced theory (as a 'set of rules'). John Cage taught us that all sound is valid as musical building blocks, and that a train whistle holds no less inherent value as a building block than a C Major Triad. And that philosophical concept, in turn, became part of what 'theory' is.
Everyone should stop worrying about a stranglehold of orthodoxy that was broken before (likely) you were born. Learn theory, and then add to it with originality. Carry on.
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- KVRAF
- 1975 posts since 4 Feb, 2005
Indeed.
And the best part of boards like these is that, in a community this size, there's the potential for new theoretical concepts and discoveries.
On the subject of Cage, I think his point was a half-truth. Cage didn't make a statement about the inherent value of a sound, but about the practical value of a sound.
Big distinction.
The conventional theoretical wisdom has since moved on, it seems, to postulate that the ultimate worth of something is contextual (this is true) and that the end result matters. Because, whatever statement John Cage may have been making, he wasn't making any decent music
And the best part of boards like these is that, in a community this size, there's the potential for new theoretical concepts and discoveries.
On the subject of Cage, I think his point was a half-truth. Cage didn't make a statement about the inherent value of a sound, but about the practical value of a sound.
Big distinction.
The conventional theoretical wisdom has since moved on, it seems, to postulate that the ultimate worth of something is contextual (this is true) and that the end result matters. Because, whatever statement John Cage may have been making, he wasn't making any decent music
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- KVRist
- 257 posts since 5 Jul, 2004 from Gaithersburg, MD
...But others have, applying that freedom in ways that Cage himself couldn't because of his limitations. Cage has to be taken as a philosopher rather than a composer to be understood in context.
When I say 'inherent value', however, I mean outside of context, which is how these new sound sources and techniques would have otherwise been judged... for example, would the average musician have considered Pendulum Music music before Cage? It very well might have been dismissed (and likely would be by a good percentage of the masses even today) as 'noise' solely by virtue of the way the sound was produced.
Whatever the sonic vocabulary, the resulting work, of course, 'matters' and can absolutely be judged for value.
When I say 'inherent value', however, I mean outside of context, which is how these new sound sources and techniques would have otherwise been judged... for example, would the average musician have considered Pendulum Music music before Cage? It very well might have been dismissed (and likely would be by a good percentage of the masses even today) as 'noise' solely by virtue of the way the sound was produced.
Whatever the sonic vocabulary, the resulting work, of course, 'matters' and can absolutely be judged for value.