UBK/[Edit]ManyBass for Live Playing

[Gregjazz]

What I would suggest is to create a separate soundset which has all the fret noises on the notes and velocities you want. Then in ManyStation, layer the normal bass soundset with the one with fret noises.

By the way, what host are you using to be able to play VSTs live? Your laptop, or a receptor or what?

[DBrendon]

Rather than use a notebook, I've recently built myself a new PC using a micro-ATX board in a nice small case:
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=91300

I'm currently in the process of upgrading a number of hardware and software components. I was using V-Stack and an M-Audio FW410.

I've now just installed an Echo MiaMIDI (PCI card) and the Brainspawn Forte host. It's too early to comment on the new system - other than to say things look promising.


Back to the fret noise question. I'm not a real bass player, so I was hoping you would provide some insight as to when fret noises should occur and over what note ranges. And any other advice you can give as to how to use the various bass "noise" samples to create realistic sounding bass. How did you decide how to add these "noises" to your sample tunes for the UBK?

Thanks,
- David

[Gregjazz]

The noises sampled besides the fret noises are usually what I refer to as "bassisms". Things like little string slap noises, etc.

I would say the fret noises are louder on the lower notes, since when you slide your finger across the strings to switch frets, your fretting finger are contacting more than one string. (though this depends on how curved your fretting fingers are) You could put it on the high velocities or on the low, just depends on what you think sounds best. Though actually, I would put the emphasis on capturing the mute sounds and string slaps in the mapping as more important than getting the fret noises. Maybe put the muted slap sounds right around the split between the bass and the lead.

Or... if your basslines tend to be fairly static (as opposed to improvised), you could do what Jordan Rudess does and have a specific mapping per song, with specific notes mapped certain ways. I think there are some videos on YouTube with him explaining his mappings.

Fret noises occur between notes, and since ManyStation doesn't allow for release samples, they might be better triggered by a note of its own. Then again, fret noises tend to be pretty subtle, especially with pro bassists.

[DBrendon]

I like that term "bassisms" - exactly what I'm thinking about - not just fret noises but all the little noises that makes the sound more realistic.

All my bass lines are improvised - I don't program sounds for specific sougs - rather I have a few patches (Upright, Slap or bassics) that I will use depending on the song. I'm also usually playing piano or B4 with my right hand - so don't have the luxury of an extra hand for playing the bassisms. As discussed previously I have mapped some slides to a few of the lowest keys available - and they sound great when used appropriately in a song! But of course the slides are often used in breaks, intros and endings. Now the slaps are a different beast - how can you map those so that they can be reached easily?

Any thoughts on mapping those so that they can be used within a song? Has anyone tried using a layer of Slaps triggered by either very low or very high velocity? Or other ideas?

Thanks,
- David

[Gregjazz]

I have some ideas for you David, but I'm just on my way out. I'll write you a nice response when I get back home.

[Gregjazz]

For slap bass, use the perpendicular thumb soundset. Put the slaps (the lower note range) on a low velocity layer, like 0-105, and then the pops (the higher note range) on the loud velocity layer, around 106-127.

Another thing you could do is make the slides stored in a separate soundset, so when you load them in ManyStation, put the release on full. That way when you reach down to play a slide, you only have to tap it for the sound to play in its entirety.

Another idea I had was, what if you put the fret noises on the very, very low velocity range, like 0-30, that way you could gently tap any note and it'd play a fret noise. You would have to make it a separate soundset so that way you could make it not sensitive to velocity in ManyStation settings. You could do this with fret noises, or the string slaps. (the string slaps are those quick percussive thumps and snaps found in the extraneous sounds mapped below, not the slap bass soundset which is something else)

Around which note do you split the bass and piano/B4?

[DBrendon]

Hi Greg,

Great post! Thank you - this is what I was hoping for! I never thought about using the release setting! I assume that the more soundsets you have loaded at a time the greater the CPU load - correct? Do smaller soundsets have less of a CPU load? - meaning if I have soundset with just 5 slides in it - is it more efficient than loading a soundset with 40 notes?

I didn't really understand this comment:

You would have to make it a separate soundset so that way you could make it not sensitive to velocity in ManyStation settings.

Can you explain in more detail?

I play the B4 from another 61 note keyboard. I'm currently splitting the bass and piano at G# below middle C (MIDI note #56) on my 88 note keyboard. I have the piano transposed an octave lower so there is a more usable range for it. I have the Bassics bass extend down to MIDI note #24, 3 octaves below middle C (60). I can't recall, but I think I might have remapped the bass samples down an octave. Then I have a few slides mapped to note #21,22,23.

Thank you for your advice! Hopefully others will find this discussion useful, since these same techniques could be used for recording as well as in live situations.

Regards,
- David

[Gregjazz]

Hi Greg,

Great post! Thank you - this is what I was hoping for! I never thought about using the release setting! I assume that the more soundsets you have loaded at a time the greater the CPU load - correct? Do smaller soundsets have less of a CPU load? - meaning if I have soundset with just 5 slides in it - is it more efficient than loading a soundset with 40 notes?

The reason you'd split up the soundsets would be to get individual control within ManyStation. That and also if you want more than one sound layered, of course.

If it's a relatively small soundset such as we're talking about, it shouldn't take very long to load at all.

I didn't really understand this comment:

You would have to make it a separate soundset so that way you could make it not sensitive to velocity in ManyStation settings.

Can you explain in more detail?

You can adjust the amount in which the velocity you hit the keys affect the volume of the note in ManyStation. If we want to have fret noises in a velocity layer around 0-20, that'd be REALLY quiet as a result of the volume curve. So we want zero volume curve in order to make them audible. So we use a separate soundset as a separate layer in ManyStation. We could also just load the same soundset twice in ManyStation and set the velocity settings there, but that'll take longer to load and make things a little less flexible.

[AKJ]

in the VSampler version I did there is a key-switch program especially optimised for live playing

[DBrendon]

Hello,

I'm not familiar with the VSampler version. Can you provide some more detail?

Thanks,
- David

[AKJ]

Hi,

this is the description of the VSampelr version:

In addition to the features described in the manual, this library features:

a) additional programmes with a unified mapping
(E1-E4: main note range, C5-G5: string noises, G#5-H5: string mutes, starting from C6: slides)

b) velo and key switch programmes

Midi controler #12 controls reverb amount (internal VSampler fx).
Midi controler #13 controls delay amount (internal VSampler fx).
The modulation wheel controls chorus amount (internal VSampler fx).

The "UBK - Live Switches" programme switches between the following programmes:
C0: Fingered - Standard
C#0: Fingered - Muted
D0: Picked - Standard
D#0: Picked -Muted
E0: Slapped - Parallel (Thumb Down and Up Cycling and Plucked Layered)
F0: Slapped - Perpendicular (Long Slap and Pop Layered)
F#0: Harmonics - Natural
G0: Harmonics - Artificial
G#0: Special Techniques - Tapping
A0: Special Techniques - Deep Bass
A#0: Special Techniques - Funk Bass
B0: Special Techniques - Reggae Bass

The "UBK - Production Switches" programme switches between the following programmes:
C-1: Fingered - Basics
C#-1: Fingered - Standard
D-1: Fingered - Muted
D#-1: Picked - Standard
E-1: Picked - Muted
F-1: Slapped - Parallel: Thumb Down
F#-1: Slapped - Parallel: Thumb Up
G-1: Slapped - Parallel: Pluck
G#-1: Slapped - Perpendicular: Slap Long
A-1: Slapped - Perpendicular: Slap Short
A#-1:Slapped - Perpendicular: Pop Long
B-1: Slapped - Perpendicular: Pop Short
C1: Harmonics - Natural
C#1: Harmonics - Artificial
D1: Special Techniques - Tapping
D#1: Special Techniques - Deep Bass
E1: Special Techniques - Funk Bass
F1: Special Techniques - Reggae Bass

hope it's clear now

cheers. akj

[DBrendon]

Hi Greg,

Continuing our previous discussion about layering the bassisms. I wonder if you can comment on these same principles and ManyBass as opposed to ManyStation.

From my initial review of ManyBass it appears that layering of soundsets is not possible. Correct? So I'm guessing one option is to continue using ManyStation for the bassisms and ManyBass for the actual bass tones.

Other suggestions?

Thanks,
- David

The reason you'd split up the soundsets would be to get individual control within ManyStation. That and also if you want more than one sound layered, of course.

If it's a relatively small soundset such as we're talking about, it shouldn't take very long to load at all.

You can adjust the amount in which the velocity you hit the keys affect the volume of the note in ManyStation. If we want to have fret noises in a velocity layer around 0-20, that'd be REALLY quiet as a result of the volume curve. So we want zero volume curve in order to make them audible. So we use a separate soundset as a separate layer in ManyStation. We could also just load the same soundset twice in ManyStation and set the velocity settings there, but that'll take longer to load and make things a little less flexible.

[Gregjazz]

I'm currently working on a complete rebuild of ManyMapper, which allows much greater connectivity between the mapping files (which can be exchanged as an external sample mapping format--the way SFZ works, for example) and the WusikSND soundsets. Basically, you'll be able to load ManyBass soundsets and easily (and quickly) change the mapping to suit live playing, etc.

[DBrendon]

But even with that enhancement (which I really look forward to by the way), we're still not talking about layering? So in order to layer say fret noises (triggered by low velocities) with notes I would need to run 2 instances of ManyBass or use ManyBass and ManyStation. Correct?

[Gregjazz]

That is correct, you can only have one soundset at a time--no layering at the moment.

Once I get the new ManyMapper fully functional, I'll have to play around with new live-specific mappings, since it's easy to move layers and edit mass samples around with the new version. If I get any useful mappings I'll put them in the downloads section of ManyBass.com (soon to come--thanks for your patience). Don't worry, the mapping files themselves contain no audio data, so they'll be very small in filesize.