Dark Ambient recording techniques?

[eduardo_b]

Ian Boddy...the Yanni or John Tesh of the UK.

Well, that seems a little harsh.

So you'd say he's a fairly well respected ambient artist? I thought your remark implied otherwise. There were a couple of pieces of music on his site I rather liked, actually. I don't think I've ever seen his name on the ambient lists.

[shamann]

So you'd say he's a fairly well respected ambient artist?

Easy now, I wouldn't go that far.

My remark wasn't implying he sucks in any way just that he embodies that sort of widdly widdly that I can only describe as modularitis. Also, see my emphatic no above to Robert Rich.

I'm not the farmers' almanac or anything, so this is all just my opinion.

I guess somehow those guys got called ambient over the years, but they certainly don't embody the concept as I first learned it. I think they sometimes like to call it space music (which is okay by me, makes it easier to avoid). See here for perhaps some minor clarification: http://www.differentskies.com/ .

[eduardo_b]

I guess somehow those guys got called ambient over the years, but they certainly don't embody the concept as I first learned it. I think they sometimes like to call it space music (which is okay by me, makes it easier to avoid).

There is some disagreement on the origins of ambient music (some claiming it first appeared, not as ambient per se, in the 1930s), but for many -- I among them -- Brian Eno sort of kicked off the genre in a meaningful way. Some three decades later, you'd never know it. There are so many variations of ambient (space music being one) that the term has become almost meaningless.

I suppose they're all valid to some degree, but for me ambient is to music what art on walls is -- it's always there but fades in and out of our consciousness. Sometimes you notice and admire it, other times you don't. But its presence adds another dimension to our awareness. I don't see ambient having rhythm, at least not percussion, but others don't feel this as a conflict.

Ultimately, no one "wins" these discussions. I suppose it's not any different than people saying they like rock music and then slag each other's favorite bands as corrupters of the purity of the genre -- whatever that might be.

[dystonia_ek]

"Music to be listened to or ignored" is still my definition of choice all these years later. Which might explain why it's so easy to lose interest in over time.

I think the whole arpeggiator thing comes from that iffy time in the early 90's when 'ambient house' lost the 'house' and then the term was retroactively applied to all that old Kosmische stuff, etc, which then fed forward into the unbridled masturbatory synth crap that gives so many of the mostly male gear nerd persuasion such raging hard-ons.

I'm not dissing all synth music here, just saying that, if we're talking 'dark ambient' (horrible term, hated it when it first started to get bandied about at the beginning of the 90's and it still grates now), then Shamann hath reason: Nay to the Arpeggiating Hordes. All that Robert Rich type stuff is just new age music in denial.

[gnu23]

Ambient in general is probably a lost cause on this, but if you are going for dark, don't get all Ian Boddy on us, ffs.

Never heard of this guy (and you ask, how is this possible), so I found his web site and have listened to some of the mp3s from different albums. I've certainly heard worse, liked some pieces more than others, and wondered -- on the basis of the remark above -- if he's considered the Yanni or John Tesh of the UK.

Meh - I got hooked by the East West Altered States demo and bought the package (created by Boddy)...kinda/shoulda skipped it.

...still needs more oceanic reverb

[droolmaster0]

You're right. Add an extra reverb step at the end.

Seriously, though, the best thing for anyone to do is just whatever you like the sound of - learn by doing. Don't let anyone steer you into some sort of box.

One of the things that distinguishes Sickle's stuff, for example, is that he comes from a background in a different area of music completely. As a result he approaches his 'ambient' material without any of the preconceptions that plague many artists who are totally genre-conscious about what they do.

The only other point I'd have is to make it ABOUT something - as a purely aesthetic gesture it'll never be more than nice wallpaper. Content and context will make the difference. Try to avoid the bogus mystical posery that has been so current with generations of Lustmord imitators with no sense of humour. Inject unexpected elements. Focus on rich, interesting sound sources rather than effects, too much emphasis and reliance upon which will render the results gimmicky at best.

And, to borrow from the recent techno sounds thread, ALWAYS remember that the funk is in the hands, not in the gear.

This is a serious question, though it sounds sarcastic....but how is music actually about something? (thinking aloud) Isn't it more that you need to think it's about something in order to organize the sounds somehow?

[droolmaster0]

dunno really, for me its always been the ones where im not actually trying that when i sit back and listen i feel ive done a good job.
so i guess get yourself some sort of live environment happening, avoid sequencing! experiment away and just get lost in what your hearing, somethings not right adjust it but record everthing...
can of course be sliced and diced afterwards layered and whatnot.
oh and plenty of reverb.

be willing to use any sound, there is no wrong.

Why avoid all sequencing? Cannot anything interesting repeat in interesting ways?

[vurt]

dunno really, for me its always been the ones where im not actually trying that when i sit back and listen i feel ive done a good job.
so i guess get yourself some sort of live environment happening, avoid sequencing! experiment away and just get lost in what your hearing, somethings not right adjust it but record everthing...
can of course be sliced and diced afterwards layered and whatnot.
oh and plenty of reverb.

be willing to use any sound, there is no wrong.

Why avoid all sequencing? Cannot anything interesting repeat in interesting ways?

its just one way among many, for me personally i find my best pieces done like this. i like to react and interact with whats going on, and that inspires me to keep going.
thats all.
i didnt mean it in an avoid sequencing its bad kinda way, as far as im concerned people should use whatever they use, so long as at the end of the session theyre happy with what they have done, and afterwards when i said cut n slice, i would then sometimes sequence the audio and repeat the cool bits, cut out the not so cool. or even drop huge loops into samplers and record all over again and so on...

no rules, just ideas!

[shamann]

'dark ambient' (horrible term, hated it when it first started to get bandied about at the beginning of the 90's and it still grates now)

It really is an awful term. The first few times I'd heard, I actually thought it was a joke. "It's like ambient, but with leather trousers and velvet capes."

[droolmaster0]

dunno really, for me its always been the ones where im not actually trying that when i sit back and listen i feel ive done a good job.
so i guess get yourself some sort of live environment happening, avoid sequencing! experiment away and just get lost in what your hearing, somethings not right adjust it but record everthing...
can of course be sliced and diced afterwards layered and whatnot.
oh and plenty of reverb.

be willing to use any sound, there is no wrong.

Why avoid all sequencing? Cannot anything interesting repeat in interesting ways?

its just one way among many, for me personally i find my best pieces done like this. i like to react and interact with whats going on, and that inspires me to keep going.
thats all.
i didnt mean it in an avoid sequencing its bad kinda way, as far as im concerned people should use whatever they use, so long as at the end of the session theyre happy with what they have done, and afterwards when i said cut n slice, i would then sometimes sequence the audio and repeat the cool bits, cut out the not so cool. or even drop huge loops into samplers and record all over again and so on...

no rules, just ideas!

Yes....

[eduardo_b]

'dark ambient' (horrible term, hated it when it first started to get bandied about at the beginning of the 90's and it still grates now)

It really is an awful term. The first few times I'd heard, I actually thought it was a joke. "It's like ambient, but with leather trousers and velvet capes."

It's a conundrum really. We want to differentiate among the various styles or sounds of a genre, such as ambient, but can't abide the descriptive terms that come into use sometimes. Like industrial ambient. Seems an oxymoron given my sense of ambient, but there it sits for those who like it. And I suppose you've heard of jungle ambient -- supposedly primitive or ethnic. Crikey.

Arps do give movement to music, so it doesn't seem actually wrong to use them in ambient, but it doesn't take much to start sounding like other electronica.

[visa tapani]

All that Robert Rich type stuff is just new age music in denial.

Surely Robert Rich & B. Lustmord - Stalker is as dark ambient as it gets?

[John Vulich]

Archon Satani

http://www.coldspring.co.uk/artists/archon-satani.php

[dystonia_ek]

'dark ambient' (horrible term, hated it when it first started to get bandied about at the beginning of the 90's and it still grates now)

It really is an awful term. The first few times I'd heard, I actually thought it was a joke. "It's like ambient, but with leather trousers and velvet capes."

Yeah, it's like everyone in metal circles now going on and on about how Stephen O'Malley invented drone music all by himself.

[dystonia_ek]

All that Robert Rich type stuff is just new age music in denial.

Surely Robert Rich & B. Lustmord - Stalker is as dark ambient as it gets?

I thought it was pretty lightweight - continued the downward spiral Lustmord began after 'Heresy'. All kinds of stuff way more downbeat out there.

Music can't really be 'dark' on it's own, though, it's all about interpretation and context. That Stalker record would have been perceived very differently with a pastel cover in place of the broody grey art that was used. That's the power of suggestion.