KVR Audio

Coxy · Post by **Coxy** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:06 pm

Saw an advert for sonar 6 in a music mag I was just re-reading and it looked ok. Checked the new features online and a couple things really appeal to me. The Sonar 6 mixer looks like it has a lot better mixing and EQ flexibility and the New ACT is very apealing to. I have a midi controller but don't use it nearly as much as I would like because of the constant remapping of controls on synths/cubase etc.

I could prob get the Academic vers of Sonar 6 for £126 as opposed to the upgrade from my sx 3 to cubase 4 at around the same or somewhat higher.
It would mean re-learning the workflow, getting used to the new way of working and different nuances that each sequencer has.
But on the plus side I find change refreshing and inspiring and I would still be holding onto and using the SX 3 that I own.

In a nutshell, I think i'd get more out of buying Sonar 6 than I would upgrading to Cubase 4. And at least then I could have the best of both worlds.

Any talk on people in similar situations or using both?

Spookyrockstar · Post by **Spookyrockstar** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:31 pm

This is a topic that could easily go ugly. You'll also find lots of good info within the arguments, so just prepare yourself!

I switched from Sonar to Cubase around five years ago, and have lately switched BACK to Sonar. As much as I liked Cubase, alot of those new features were the deciding factor.

ACT is wonderful, but you MUST set it up correctly the first time. It's not always super functional right upon startup. AudioSnap is also great, but also has a non-intuitive learning curve. (IMO) Seeing as you'll be learing something new anyway, it should'nt be a big deal.

Hey, I just remembered that Sonar DOES have a web demo! Maybe that should help you out before you purchase. Once you purchase Sonar, that's it. (no liscence transfer if you change your mind!)

Good luck!

symbolique · Post by **symbolique** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:51 am

I'd concur with Spookyrockstar on the ugliness factor of such a question

I basically went the other way, started with Cubase a long time ago, drove me nuts compared to Cakewalk 9 at the time so I waited and swapped to Sonar and after Sonar 4 decided the midi functionality of Cubase and other nice features were more conducive to my personal workflow, as well as the non-wrapping of VST at that time with Sonar. And I think that is the key for a DAW host, your own personal workflow. I got itchy on Sonar 4 after seeing Cubase SX 3, so I got Cubase LE with a new firewire card and then splashed out for Cubase 4 as soon as it came out. I've been happy ever since.

There's definitely a lot of complaints about C4 on the official non-support forum cubase.net, but I've had no problems with C4 whatsoever since upgrading... well, buying brand new really. The lack of a demo is disappointing with C4 though and nearly made me go elsewhere, but it hasn't stopped Cubase from selling, even to me.

Kind regards
Jason Just

http://www.distorture.co.nz/

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:00 am

well, Sonar is looking (and sounding, etc..

) really good these days! If EnergyXt and Podium were to suddenly cease to exist, i would go to Sonar for sure. Unless i became a millionaire, then i would get samplitude, but that's another story

I know several professionals using Sonar, and very happily so. I never ever hear them mention a feature they wish they had, or complain about some functionality; it's all grins, and lots of production.
-g

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:26 am

I'll try answer this question without getting ugly as described above since I personally ... dislike Sonar.

I find that if you are used to Cubase and have used it extensively, Sonar "might" be really really confusing and illogical to you. Especially in regards to things like...

- General workflow / simplicity ... Cubase has a much more neat layout where tools are only accessible in limited ways. Sonar presents all tools, everywhere.
- Audio file organisation (Cubase and Logic are the bees knees here)
- Sample editing
- MIDI editing (Cubase is far superior)
- General workflow. Sonar works completely different to Cubase in a lot of things.
- Lack of sidechaining, there's no way to do this in Sonar, but there is in Cubase

I have always found that Sonar looks a lot better on paper than it is in practice because the way they choose to implement some features just don't make sense to me like Cubase does.

May I suggest you check out REAPER. I am considering the move away from Cubase too and I have found REAPER a lot easier to move to even though there are still many things I miss from Cubase.

Best of luck & I hope I haven't offended any Sonar users, these are only my observations

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:43 am

Read the Sound on sound reviews (Cubase 4 and Sonar 6 reviews are in the same issue).

What they say is, both are good, great upgrades but not many people will want to switch.

I have Cubase 4 Studio and check out every new version of Sonar. I would really like to like it (serial number instead of the dongle ad some other really great things) but it's not there yet (for me). Maybe in ver. 7.

k

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:25 am

Try the Sonar demo version, see how it works for you.

demetrisag · Post by **demetrisag** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:08 am

Sonar support 64 bit and Multi CPU. Cubase non of these. We are speaking about a LOT performance. Cubase 4 swich to VST v.3 and thrown away the combatibility with most of the plug ins we are using. I am a Cubase user but I see me swithcing to Sonar.

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:44 am

I was considering a switch from Cubase (SX3) to Sonar 6, but I do enough midi to make the change painful.

Sonar's midi stuff is stall way, way behind Cubase. The single biggest issue for me was the completely retarded controllers-lanes in Sonar; if you have a controller lane showing velocity, it can all midi-notes, you can't get it to show just those at a certain pitch.

This is really, really tedious for drum programming since you can't (for example) draw in a swell of velocity on a snare fill without hitting everything else that's going one simultaneously (kick for example).

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:10 am

I would very surprised (and very dissapointed) if Cakewalk didn't have a long hard look at the MIDI workflow in Sonar for the next version. I mean, they must know. Or at least, occasionally check out the competition. It's not simply that it's an awkward style of workflow, rather that it simply hasn't been touched since about Sonar 2. It's not a deal-breaker for me, I can still do everything in Sonar MIDI-wise that I can do in other apps... it's just that it's a rather heartbreaking and frustrating process at times.

Worth it though for all the comprehensive tools Sonar offers otherwise.

DarinBad · Post by **DarinBad** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:53 am

fandango wrote:I would very surprised (and very dissapointed) if Cakewalk didn't have a long hard look at the MIDI workflow in Sonar for the next version. I mean, they must know. Or at least, occasionally check out the competition. It's not simply that it's an awkward style of workflow, rather that it simply hasn't been touched since about Sonar 2. It's not a deal-breaker for me, I can still do everything in Sonar MIDI-wise that I can do in other apps... it's just that it's a rather heartbreaking and frustrating process at times.

Worth it though for all the comprehensive tools Sonar offers otherwise.

I would go with SONAR in a heartbeat if the MIDI editing were more intuitive. I'm tired of this hardcore copy protection of other apps. But in the end, it's all about the workflow. Cubase fits my "thinking" and that's worth putting up with the dongle (so far). But I'll tell you this... As soon as Sonar catches up with the MIDI end of things, I'm there.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:07 am

demetrisag wrote:Sonar support 64 bit and Multi CPU. Cubase non of these. We are speaking about a LOT performance. Cubase 4 swich to VST v.3 and thrown away the combatibility with most of the plug ins we are using. I am a Cubase user but I see me swithcing to Sonar.

Cubase does support Multi CPU

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:29 am

soundpalace wrote: Cubase does support Multi CPU

- And SONAR Midi has been evolved in SONAR 5, much less in SONAR 6; but it's anyway a lot different and better than SONAR 2. I am the first to admit it has so much to enhance still though ...

- Sidechaining is possible in SONAR, using Sidekick or DB Compressor

Please guys tell only verified things...

Cheers,
Mario

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:43 am

mabian wrote: - And SONAR Midi has been evolved in SONAR 5, much less in SONAR 6; but it's anyway a lot different and better than SONAR 2. I am the first to admit it has so much to enhance still though ...

The problem was that it evolved rather badly. For instance, they plowed ahead with an in-line piano roll that shared all the problems of the main one and also (afaik) wouldn't allow you to use the same shortcut keys in the in-line view due to conflicts with the Track View.

That, and the decision to 'improve' things by putting controller data as an overlay in the main piano roll view which is probably the most counter-intuitive thing I've ever come across in that department. You can still have the seperate controller pane, but it would be nice to be able to stack controller panes like you can in Cubase, energyXT etc.

Anyway, I'm sure there'll be plenty of debate on the Cakewalk forums and I'm looking forward helping Cakewalk when the beta-testing period arrives.

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:56 am

fandango, I posted some weeks ago a "MIDI empowerment thread" on the SONAR official forum about that; maybe you were already there, don't remember, but I'm going to sustain the crusade in the next months, so hope you will be there to enforce the concept

About the main topic, I'm quite glad to be in the Cakewalk side of the river, Cubase 4 and the drop of 3.2 update aren't any good news for me, it shows they just don't care that much to what users need and ask for...

Thanks
Mario

Cubaser thinking of turning to Sonar 6 instead of Cubase 4