Chord Progressions in different modes?

[No name]

I'm trying to figure out different chords in the different modes. I take it that all chord progressions follow the same structure?
I mean:

I ii iii IV V vi vii0



The Mixolydian is :2,2,1,2,2,1,2

Say for instance I play the Mixolydian mode with C as the tonic. I then go through it all like normal, but when I hear chord iii I find myself on E, so then naturally you would expect to go E,G,B, which should be am minor chord, 1,3,5. There is my problem though, when you are in the Mixolydian mode starting on C then you hit the E chord, you would skip over the B, correct? It would be W,W,H,W,W,H,W which translates as C,D,E,F,G,A,B Flat,C. What am I missing here, I feel like I am merely just missing some deceptively easy concept in this. Or is forming chord progressions in different modes wrong?

The whole reason I got myself in to this mess in the first place is when I tried to figure out what chord and key B,D,G falls in, as D to G is a perfect fourth and it sounded good so I wanted to know where this chord comes from.

Wow, I worded it confusingly, I hope someone understand what I mean. It's hard to explain

[JumpingJackFlash]

I'm trying to figure out different chords in the different modes. I take it that all chord progressions follow the same structure?
I mean:

I ii iii IV V vi vii0
Major minor minor Major Major minor diminished

Say for instance I play the Mixolydian mode with C as the tonic. I then go through it all like normal, but when I hear chord iii I find myself on E, so then naturally you would expect to go E,G,B. There is my problem though, when you are in the Mixolydian mode starting on C then you would skip over the B, correct? It would be W,W,H,W,W,H,W which translates as C,D,E,F,G,A,B Flat,C. What am I missing here, I feel like I am merely just missing some deceptively easy concept in this. Or is forming chord progressions in different modes wrong?

The whole reason I got myself in to this mess in the first place is when I tried to figure out what chord and key B,D,G falls in, as D to G is a perfect fourth and it sounded good so I wanted to know where this chord comes from.

I don't have much time to go into details now, but briefly:

The pattern Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, diminished (chords), only exists within a normal Major scale (Ionian mode). - If you change the starting note, then all the chords will change accordingly.

For example, when using all the white notes from C-C, it doesn't matter what note you start the scale/mode on, a triad starting on C, F and G will always be major, on D, E and A will always be minor, and B will always be diminished.
So (in C), in the Dorian mode, chord I (D,F,A) is minor. In the Mixolydian, chord V (D,F,A) is minor.

Remember, triads are the basis of chords. A triad is always a group of thirds. - So, to find out what the triad is, rearrange the notes so they form a group of 3rds. Then, the bottom note will be the name of the triad.

So, for example, B,D,G - rearrange so it's a stack of 3rds and you get G,B,D. - This is the chord of G major (V in C).
The inversion of the chord will determine which note is in the bass (and vice. versa).

See my Introduction to Music Theory for more information.

[nuffink]

I'm trying to figure out different chords in the different modes. I take it that all chord progressions follow the same structure?
I mean:

I ii iii IV V vi vii0
Major minor minor Major Major minor diminished

Say for instance I play the Mixolydian mode with C as the tonic. I then go through it all like normal, but when I hear chord iii I find myself on E, so then naturally you would expect to go E,G,B. There is my problem though, when you are in the Mixolydian mode starting on C then you would skip over the B, correct? It would be W,W,H,W,W,H,W which translates as C,D,E,F,G,A,B Flat,C. What am I missing here, I feel like I am merely just missing some deceptively easy concept in this. Or is forming chord progressions in different modes wrong?

The whole reason I got myself in to this mess in the first place is when I tried to figure out what chord and key B,D,G falls in, as D to G is a perfect fourth and it sounded good so I wanted to know where this chord comes from.

That's the problem with the modes of the major scale. With the obvious exception of the Ionian mode, none of them lend themselves to well defined chord progressions. None of them have a dominant V7 chord to give the pull back to the tonic. This is why the Harmonic Minor was developed. As opposed to the Natural Minor/Aolian Mode it has a diatonic V7 chord.

[No name]

There are parts I do understand and parts I do not, will have to read further in to this.

I think what you are saying is that it isn't always Major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, diminished? That is only when you are in the major scale correct? So if you were in minor or if you were in another mode then that arrangement of major,minor and diminished chords would be re arranged? I'll look into it more.

[nuffink]

Sure. Take a look here... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164044
You'll se that the diatonic chords of the mixolydian scale are
C7, D-7, Eø, FΔ, G-7, A-7, BbΔ
I7, ii-7, iiiø, IVΔ, v-7, vi-7, bVIIΔ

knock off the 7ths if you're talking triads and you have
Major, minor, diminished, major, minor, minor, major

[mistertoast]

>>That's the problem with the modes of the major scale.

It's also an opportunity. If you learn what works in the different modes, you can "borrow" from other modes. In minor songs in particular, there's all sorts of borrowing going on from the "different" minors.

[No name]

So there really is no solution to this then? What if I dropped the E,G,B to E,G,B Flat. Then it would replace the iii with iii dim, correct? Or is it best to leave it all alone, and as was said, use the harmonic minor?

Ok I see, yes I was reffering to triads. So I was correct in saying that the minor should be replaced with a diminished?

[nuffink]

>>That's the problem with the modes of the major scale.

It's also an opportunity. If you learn what works in the different modes, you can "borrow" from other modes. In minor songs in particular, there's all sorts of borrowing going on from the "different" minors.

Yep. That's modal interchange.

[nuffink]

So there really is no solution to this then? What if I dropped the E,G,B to E,G,B Flat. Then it would replace the iii with iii dim, correct? Or is it best to leave it all alone, and as was said, use the harmonic minor?

There are plenty of solutions. You just use the modes as a grab bag of modal interchange possibilities. Of course if you want to stay inside the diatonic constraints of a particular mode you have to live with the lack of strong progressions. The mixolydian is particularly tough seeing as how the tonic 7 chord is a dominant.

[No name]

Interesting, so modal interchange would also be that if I went from an I in the key of C (C,E,G) to an I in A ( A, C#, E...I just love the way these two chords sound together, which is why i'm using it as an example) is an example of modal interchange?

I'm sorry folks, this is all new territory to me, i've been learning chords and the like for about a month now, so I haven't dug too deep yet. I think it's interesting borrowing different chords from different keys in the major scale, the sound is more original than just sticking to all chords in the same key.

[nuffink]

Interesting, so modal interchange would also be that if I went from an I in the key of C (C,E,G) to an I in A (I just love the way these two chords sound together, which is why i'm using it as an example) is an example of modal interchange?

No. Modal interchange is between parallel modes. In C you can substitute any chord you like from C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, etc.

Again I'll point you to http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164044 where all the parallel modes of the major scale and their chord types are laid out.

[No name]

Ok, let me read through everything, and brush up on understanding of things like 7th's and stuff and hopefully i'll have it down. Thanks!

[No name]

Wow, it seems a need a better book! My book mentioned nothing of things like modal interchanges, it didn't touch on the modes at all except for the steps between notes in each mode, and the chords section was no where near as in depth as it needed to be. They just pretty much tell you the major scale chords, and how to play them, which were block and arpeggio. I want a very firm grasp on this though so I can use chords effecitvely in my music, I don't want to do block triad chords every measure, it would work at times but it can be so boring, I want to add spice by doing different things with the chords. Anyways, i'm gonna do some reading now.

[No name]

Nuffink, I see a lot of things on the page are just too deep for me right now, and I don't know, for the most part, what i'm even looking at when I read through it all. I need to find some more resources on chords and build up to it. Thank you for youe help.

[Peel]

OK, the simplest answer is, play C-E-Bb.
The simplest "general" answer is all your triads will be made from playing every-other note in the mode.
so, for example,
F dorian = F G Ab Bb C D Eb
the triads are
i = F Ab C (F minor)
ii = G Bb D (G minor)
III = Ab C Eb (Ab major)
etc...
and if you want to make 7ths, just continue the pattern (F Ab C Eb, G B D F, etc...).

Please don't forget the "simplest" disclaimer