KVR Audio

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:06 pm

Would it be against the law to sample some of these synths and then resell them?

Some of them use actual samples to begin with so I'm just wondering.

anyone know?

dw

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:10 pm

it's the same rule as with any emulation and sampling: no use of trademarks (could be brand/model/name/likeness) without permission and/or license.

other than that, anything goes.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:10 pm

There seems to be dozens of sample sets with these instruments all ready. What's the point?

spectrum · Post by **spectrum** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:11 pm

It is not legal without permission from Roland. However, a lot of folks have done it illegally. So it is a risk that you may get caught....

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:13 pm

John Vulich wrote:There seems to be dozens of sample sets with these instruments all ready. What's the point?

I have a project and I want those sounds to be included.

dw

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:14 pm

spectrum wrote:It is not legal without permission from Roland. However, a lot of folks have done it illegally. So it is a risk that you may get caught....

awesome! I was hoping you would reply.

The next question is, how does one get in touch with Roland for permission?

dw

spectrum · Post by **spectrum** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:16 pm

Contact Roland US and ask for Jun Yamato in their legal department.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:29 pm

spectrum wrote:It is not legal without permission from Roland. However, a lot of folks have done it illegally. So it is a risk that you may get caught....

Has Roland actually even bothered to pursue anybody that sampled these instruments without permission?

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:31 pm

spectrum wrote:Contact Roland US and ask for Jun Yamato in their legal department.

Thankyou very much.

dw

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:33 pm

John Vulich wrote:
spectrum wrote:It is not legal without permission from Roland. However, a lot of folks have done it illegally. So it is a risk that you may get caught....
Has Roland actually even bothered to pursue anybody that sampled these instruments without permission?

That's a good question.

If a product was for sale that used some of their sounds, would they tell you to stop distributing the product and leave it at that? Or would/could they come after all the profits as well?

dw

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:14 pm

How could sampling the 606 possibly be illegal when it isn't even sample-based?

dusted william · Post by **dusted william** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:24 pm

shamann wrote:How could sampling the 606 possibly be illegal when it isn't even sample-based?

if isn't sample based then I'll take it off my list along with the 808.

I'm pretty sure the 909 has a few samples in 'em

dw

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:53 pm

>>it's the same rule as with any emulation and sampling: no use of trademarks (could be brand/model/name/likeness) without permission and/or license.

So if I use SQ80 samples, as long as I call them "classic" samples, I'm fine?

beej · Post by **beej** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:04 pm

No, the SQ80 I believe is a samploid synth, so you would be using copyright recordings from Ensoniq, so they could still object based on that. If it was analog or waveform synthesis only, then feasibly you would be ok.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:05 pm

dusted william wrote:if isn't sample based then I'll take it off my list along with the 808.

I'm pretty sure the 909 has a few samples in 'em

The 505, 626, 707, 727, and 909 (everything but the snare) are sample-based.

The tr-33, tr-55, tr-66, tr-330, tr-77, tr-77v, tr-606, and tr-808 are all analog synthesizers.

Something that's odd to me is that a) samples of the sample-based machines are ubiquitous. Not just sampled illegally by a few people, but they are in fact everywhere on the web, and quite obviously so. If Roland had a case against them, strange they've never tried to pursue litigation, or had any threats of litigation go to court. And b) the common wisdom around the web on these subjects has for years usually been that only the on-board PCM data was in fact copyrightable. So if you sampled the output of the instrument, you were sampling the instrument as it was played and not the copyrighted material itself (which, the wisdom had it, had been altered enough from its source, through the machines outs, etc, that what you recorded was in fact a different sound).

Now interweb wisdom is always questionable, so there's a good chance it's wrong. But there doesn't appear to be any legal precedent on this specific matter to help us out, and Roland clearly haven't pursued it.

For example, take Zero-G's Nostalgia, and by proxy, Hollowsun's sample sets. They hardly could exist outside of Roland's line of vision, since they are fairly high profile, and the sample-based drum machine samples are contained both in Zero-G's commercial product and were available for download from Akai's website for years (I think they've disappeared in Akai's recent site redesign, but still can be found via Google's cache). Yet, if you look at either Hollowsun's website or Zero-G's or Akai's, there is absolutely no reference to Roland copyrights. Maybe they have explicit permission, but it strikes me as odd that there isn't a kind of "TR-727 samples Copyright Roland Corp. Used by permission," disclaimer anywhere on their marketing materials.

what are the laws for sampling 909,606,707's?