Is there a proper way to sample synthesizers?
I would like to sample single shots of the following sounds:
- Leads
- Bass
- Pads
One thing for sure would be the length of the samples depending on the sample type. If I am sampling pads, the notes would have to be at least 4 bars or even 8 bars long. What lengths do you guys suggest?
What about fade-in and fade-out? Should I apply fade-in and fade-outs for such samples?
Lets say I am sampling leads, if the samples have long releases, should I sample them untill complete silence?
For sample format, 24bit 44100hz WAV is probably the best way to go?
Basically, I would like to do the job once and right.
Proper way to sample synthesizers?
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- KVRian
- 677 posts since 7 Oct, 2003
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders
I'd say make as many as possible into loops ... especially pad sounds. That way you can keep them short(ish) and folk can apply their own envelopes. Depends on the sound itself too ... if it evolves over a long time it's not so easy to loop up.
I wouldn't apply fade-in to samples. I always sample at 16 bit 44khz , but that's just me ...
I wouldn't apply fade-in to samples. I always sample at 16 bit 44khz , but that's just me ...
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- KVRAF
- 4707 posts since 16 Mar, 2004 from Columbia, MD
Generally speaking, you want to try to sample so that one full "cycle" of the sound has completed. eg. If you have an LFO that takes 4 second to complete, try to sample 5 seconds of material and go from there. Otherwise it's not going to sound good. But really, you should always sample a lot more than you need, then use a program like Antares Infinity (best program for this in the business, but Mac only) to find appropriate points for you. Infinity is also killer because it can alter the sound and blend the timbres of the loop points to make it even more seamless, plus a few other modes to make otherwise unloopable samples loop perfectly.
As for fadeins, yeah, let the user make their own envelopes.
As for fadeins, yeah, let the user make their own envelopes.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 677 posts since 7 Oct, 2003
That makes sense.
So 16 bit is enough?
So 16 bit is enough?
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- KVRAF
- 4707 posts since 16 Mar, 2004 from Columbia, MD
I personally never saw the hype about 24 bit samples... I can't discern a clear difference between 16 bit and 24 bit drums, for example. But I've never personally A/Bed them in a scientific manner. Might as well go for 24bit, chances are no one will complain.
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- KVRian
- 852 posts since 28 Oct, 2004
Also remember that if there is heavy modulation (like filter/amp swells on pads) the speed of the modulation WILL change when you shift the sample across the keyboard. This can make some pads/leads sound very "sampled" and only usuable in a small keyrange.
A good sampler would support loops with the release part intact: so sample the whole sound + release. Then in your editor, just loop the modulation cycle. Hopefully the sampler should understand that the release part should be played on key-off.
I would not sample fade-ins since the fade in destroys that valuable attack-part sound that you can't re-create if lost! (and which sampler doesn't have ADSR envelopes?) ... and if the release part is just the same looped cycle played over again but only with decaying volume, there's no need to keep the release part (it can also be re-created by an ADSR env.)
And for 24 bit: since MP3 is the major distribution medium today can you tell if an mp3 had 24 or 16 bit samples as the source?
A good sampler would support loops with the release part intact: so sample the whole sound + release. Then in your editor, just loop the modulation cycle. Hopefully the sampler should understand that the release part should be played on key-off.
I would not sample fade-ins since the fade in destroys that valuable attack-part sound that you can't re-create if lost! (and which sampler doesn't have ADSR envelopes?) ... and if the release part is just the same looped cycle played over again but only with decaying volume, there's no need to keep the release part (it can also be re-created by an ADSR env.)
And for 24 bit: since MP3 is the major distribution medium today can you tell if an mp3 had 24 or 16 bit samples as the source?
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- Banned
- 1842 posts since 4 Aug, 2004 from just right here
Thats what Iv been working on. Sampling synths and making presets.
What I did was go for the basic tone/presets on the synth first, which can be looped so samplers envelopes and filters can be made use of. Iv done every note at about 20 or more secs, but you can get them down to 1sec. At every note at more than 20sec is about 63,000kb = 63MB, thats about 12 preset per CD.
I record them at 44khz/16bit, because of the sampler Im using and there is not realy a big standard for a higher rate as yet. Most of the other samples I have are at 44hz/16bit anyway. After that I might sample the different sounds that can be created on the synth itself, thats the bonus(not the other way round Sample CD producers?).
If you want to get realy good at editing samples, get the Soviet Synthesizer sample CD, cause some of the sounds are quite complex and very difficult to edit, but you realy learn a lot...
You might need a tuner. I use the AP tuner3. I had this other guitar version of it and I lost it and don't know where to get it.
goodluck...
What I did was go for the basic tone/presets on the synth first, which can be looped so samplers envelopes and filters can be made use of. Iv done every note at about 20 or more secs, but you can get them down to 1sec. At every note at more than 20sec is about 63,000kb = 63MB, thats about 12 preset per CD.
I record them at 44khz/16bit, because of the sampler Im using and there is not realy a big standard for a higher rate as yet. Most of the other samples I have are at 44hz/16bit anyway. After that I might sample the different sounds that can be created on the synth itself, thats the bonus(not the other way round Sample CD producers?).If you want to get realy good at editing samples, get the Soviet Synthesizer sample CD, cause some of the sounds are quite complex and very difficult to edit, but you realy learn a lot...
You might need a tuner. I use the AP tuner3. I had this other guitar version of it and I lost it and don't know where to get it.
goodluck...
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 677 posts since 7 Oct, 2003
Some nice info there Larm and Rantangtang. I will have to take it into consideration.
Also, here are some other questions:
1) What should be the volume of samples?
2) Should all samples be at the same volume? If so, how to achieve this?
3) Should samples be normalized?
4) Should there be some VST effect applied on the master channel when sampling synths?
Also, here are some other questions:
1) What should be the volume of samples?
2) Should all samples be at the same volume? If so, how to achieve this?
3) Should samples be normalized?
4) Should there be some VST effect applied on the master channel when sampling synths?