Jonn Serrie "lead" sound

[Whole Note]

I'm interested in programming my own sounds and when I came upon "The Auran Vector" by Jonn Serrie (the songs are on the bottom of this page),

http://www.vipinfo.com/jonn/disk1.htm

I said to myself "I don't even know what kind of waveform to start with". More specifically, I'm talking about the "lead" sound that comes in almost twenty seconds into the piece right after the twinkly bit. If you're still not sure what sound I'm talking about, it kind of sounds like when you get your finger wet and rub it on the rim of a glass.

I admit I haven't been in the synth game very long (just over two years), but I've learned the basics and I would love to take the next step. I have the Simon Cann synth book, but I don't know how Serrie created that "lead" sound. Could it be a sine wave? I think it's more than that (obviously with movement going on too). Also, is it even possible to create this sound using subtractive synthesis on a vsti? Thanks for any answers that can clear this up for me !!

[kilroy]

Aaaah yes...the old rubbed wineglass sound. You are correct in that the basic core of the sound is a sine wave. To get that glassy sheen I like to blend in ring modulated partials that have been appropriately filtered, but depending on the topology of the synth engine being used, this maybe not always be strictly necessary. Some synths may have sampled PCM wave forms that get close to this sound, but I prefer to work with first generation waves, ie. filtering saw waves sufficiently with a good filter to get the sine wave partials to begin with.

I pitch the ring modulated partials so as to impart slight inharmonic overtones, and modulate these slowly with LFOs...a vitally important detail if you are going for accurate emulations of glass or bell like structures.

Hear is a clip in which there are some examples of wineglass partials I used in an effort to add some weirdness to a strange atmospheric texture.

www.headroomproductions.com/Audio/SpiceDreams.mp3

This track was done using just the Korg Wavestation, so no ring modulation was used. The sounds are a bit different than what these Serrie tracks demonstrate, but the basic approach is similar. Actually, I did some wineglass patches for a documentary that sound very close to those in the Serrie examples. If memory serves, I just used a Roland D50 for the source. Got me curious now, might have to look into this on the morrow.

By the by, all of my synthesis is still being done using hardware instruments, so some of these other helpful chaps may be able to advise your better on where to look on the soft synth front.

[spectrum]

That is very likely that Atmosphere was used in that track.

Mr. Serrie is a Spectrasonics user and this is one of the sounds in Atmosphere:

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... phere.html

[kilroy]

Aah, well there you go then.

Hmmm...I see Eric Persing was in on that lot. Decent bloke, and a good ear for how sounds go together, to be sure.

[spectrum]

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Kilroy.

spectrum (aka: EP from Spectrasonics)

[Whole Note]

Thank you both for the quick and well informed replies!!

kilroy - Nice tune! Dark, yet beautiful and sonically interesting. Is it strange that it made me feel calm? And even though it's not exactly the same sound, it's pretty close. In regard to creating that sound, do you mean you would take a sine wave and then layer filterd saw waves for the overtones?

spectrum - Since Atmosphere bases a lot of its content on hardware synths, and this sound can be found in it, is it fairly difficult to recreate this wineglass sound with a "typical" VA? What kind of architecture would a synth need in order to produce this (how many/what kind of oscillators, filters, LFOs)?

I'm not in any kind of financial situation to able to buy anything as massive as Atmosphere and I would get more satisfaction from programming that sound from the ground up. I have this strong desire to mold sounds from the most basic of building blocks, even if it's a somewhat simpler sound like a monophonic bass. Any more tips would be much appreciated!!

[kilroy]

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Kilroy.

spectrum (aka: EP from Spectrasonics)

Well now, that is just rich.

You know Eric, among your many distinguished accomplishments, I gotta say, nobody has come close to eclipsing your rep for programming some of the most over used factory patches in the history of music.

When I bought my first D-50 I took time to admire your handywork before blowing away all the factory patches so I could start filling the machine up with my own sounds...gosh, I just figured you would have wanted it that way.

Well, I would be in a session going through some of my patches, or tweaking up something special for the occasion, and folks would come on the talk back with..."Say...have you still got that "Fantasia" patch on there?" or "You know, we used that "GlassVoices" patch the other day...how about giving that one a go?" I could not believe how many times I got asked for that "Staccato Heaven" patch. I remember Love and Rockets used the "IntruderFX" patch right in the middle break of "So Alive", and no attempt was made to be subtle about it. And while we are on about it...remember that one Don Henley album? Man, just how many bog stock, totally unchanged D-50 patches of yours got on that record?

I kept getting asked for those sounds so often I started carrying the factory bank ROM card with me. All I could do was shake my head and wonder, "What do bloody Persing's patches have that mine don't!??" But, folks just wanted to be sure they used the same cool sounds.

And cool sounds they were, mate. I don't think a bank of sounds ever sold a synth faster. Top of your rank, to be sure. Good to see your still at it. All the best to you.


There now, that ought to be more than enough unabashed fawning and mewing to earn me a complimentary copy of Atmosphere.

[kilroy]

kilroy - Nice tune! Dark, yet beautiful and sonically interesting.

Found it on a tape reel when I was archiving some old material. Goes back to '95...was actually a rough temp underscore for a scene in film. It was never expanded on, production stopped and the film was never made...long sordid tale.

In regard to creating that sound, do you mean you would take a sine wave and then layer filterd saw waves for the overtones?

Aye...you filter a saw wave down enough and you basically got yourself a sine wave, which is a good foundation for building a wineglass sound. You could also accomplish the same end using an additive synthesis approach. I use the Kawai K5000s for this, but there are some additive VSTi engines out there that you could probably get your hands on I'm sure.

[spectrum]

Thank you both for the quick and well informed replies!!

kilroy - Nice tune! Dark, yet beautiful and sonically interesting. Is it strange that it made me feel calm? And even though it's not exactly the same sound, it's pretty close. In regard to creating that sound, do you mean you would take a sine wave and then layer filterd saw waves for the overtones?

spectrum - Since Atmosphere bases a lot of its content on hardware synths, and this sound can be found in it, is it fairly difficult to recreate this wineglass sound with a "typical" VA? What kind of architecture would a synth need in order to produce this (how many/what kind of oscillators, filters, LFOs)?

I'm not in any kind of financial situation to able to buy anything as massive as Atmosphere and I would get more satisfaction from programming that sound from the ground up. I have this strong desire to mold sounds from the most basic of building blocks, even if it's a somewhat simpler sound like a monophonic bass. Any more tips would be much appreciated!!

Probably easiest would be to search for a Wine Glasses sample or soundfont.

[spectrum]

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Kilroy.

spectrum (aka: EP from Spectrasonics)

Well now, that is just rich.

You know Eric, among your many distinguished accomplishments, I gotta say, nobody has come close to eclipsing your rep for programming some of the most over used factory patches in the history of music.

When I bought my first D-50 I took time to admire your handywork before blowing away all the factory patches so I could start filling the machine up with my own sounds...gosh, I just figured you would have wanted it that way.

Well, I would be in a session going through some of my patches, or tweaking up something special for the occasion, and folks would come on the talk back with..."Say...have you still got that "Fantasia" patch on there?" or "You know, we used that "GlassVoices" patch the other day...how about giving that one a go?" I could not believe how many times I got asked for that "Staccato Heaven" patch. I remember Love and Rockets used the "IntruderFX" patch right in the middle break of "So Alive", and no attempt was made to be subtle about it. And while we are on about it...remember that one Don Henley album? Man, just how many bog stock, totally unchanged D-50 patches of yours got on that record?

I kept getting asked for those sounds so often I started carrying the factory bank ROM card with me. All I could do was shake my head and wonder, "What do bloody Persing's patches have that mine don't!??" But, folks just wanted to be sure they used the same cool sounds.

And cool sounds they were, mate. I don't think a bank of sounds ever sold a synth faster. Top of your rank, to be sure. Good to see your still at it. All the best to you.


There now, that ought to be more than enough unabashed fawning and mewing to earn me a complimentary copy of Atmosphere.

[calgonite]

What you might search are old FM synths like Yamaha TX816. You can create sounds like his old leads as in "And the Stars go with you". You might also try to get hands on a cheap Yamaha YS-100 or TG-5, I created sounds similar to that with them. Layering (with 5ths/7ths) some Wavestation Sounds made similar sounds but more sharp, should be postprocessed to sound more "Analogue".

Btw Wavestation, he used it in the 90s, its a great machine for Electronic(Soundscapes/Textures), I created some Soundcards for it in that time.