We need a better loop format!! Here are some ideas

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What would you say if there was a loop format with the following:

- Contains three parts: beginning, middle, end.
Beginning: contains the natural attack of the sound
Middle: this is the looping part, you can loop this as many times as possible
End: contains the natural release of the sound
This format would use some special algorithms that creates seamless transitions between these parts
(I am smart, eh? :) )

- uses some kind of compression technology similar to REX2 that can minimize the size of the loops without affecting the sound quality

- contains a whole ocatve of loops at different pitch. Each part (beginning,middle,end) can be independently changed to a different pitch. Each repeating middle part can also have a different pitch. There would have to be some special algorithm that creates nice transitions between parts that have a different pitch.

I call this "SUPER LOOP" format.

Here is a little drawing that lets you imagine what this Super Loop format would look like inside of a sequencer:

Image

B - beginning
M - middle
E - end
+1 - part at one semitone higher
-3 - part at 3 semitones lower


Figure 1 shows the original Super Loop imported into a project. There is no looping here, just a natural attack, middle, and natural end.

Figure 2 shows the same Super Loop being looped 5 times, changing pitch the second time and the fourth time it loops.

To go from Figure 1 to Figure 2, all you would do is just drag the vertical line between the middle part and the end part.

Also, there should be an option to hide (cancel sound output) for the beginning part and the end part.

That's about it for now. Please feel free to add or subtract.

EDIT: Consider the waveform as only the top-half of a waveform hehe, I don't know why I drew it this way.

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Hmmm... maybe it's different then what you're thinking, but apps like SoundForge can already create both sustain and release loops.

As far as using a REX style format, how would it deal with sustained sounds? REX is primarily geared towards rythmic material. And it's not really a compression format either. :shrug:

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:ud:
Image Take this; you hater!

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Frater Perdurabo wrote:Hmmm... maybe it's different then what you're thinking, but apps like SoundForge can already create both sustain and release loops.

As far as using a REX style format, how would it deal with sustained sounds? REX is primarily geared towards rythmic material. And it's not really a compression format either. :shrug:
Really? hehe, never knew that. Does it take lots of editing?

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No, not really.

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superddman wrote:What would you say if there was a loop format with the following:

- Contains three parts: beginning, middle, end.
Beginning: contains the natural attack of the sound
Middle: this is the looping part, you can loop this as many times as possible
End: contains the natural release of the sound
Ermmmm .... that's pretty much how all samplers work. Akai samplers have been doing this for 20 years or more!!
superddman wrote:This format would use some special algorithms that creates seamless transitions between these parts
Do you mean standard crossfade looping? Or maybe something like INFINITY that's been around for about 20 years now?

:?

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yeh aint no big invention here...
< nobody cares what you use >

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sounds like a fantastic idea!



I was thinking myself -what if there was something that could remove certain frequencies from a signal, but leave others? and what if it could emphasise the frequencies around the point at which it cut off the others?

I call this 'The Super Filter'

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I don't know but many of the things you guys have mentioned are time consuming and not that convienient.

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Okay Music Is Not For Bashers, This Dude Has Got An Idea We Should Consider :), People Who Bash Anothers Words Are Ignorent In There Own Ways :|
(Site I Named After Myself http://jason.jconserv.net/)

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superddman wrote:I don't know but many of the things you guys have mentioned are time consuming and not that convienient.
How's your idea supposed to be more convenient then?

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The problem with looping is that computers are'nt very good at it. It is simply one of those things you have to do manually. Sure a good looping program will help plenty but you still have to do a good bit of manual labour.

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If you're going to get into looping, you should learn that you can take the 3 part sample (begin, middle, end) and then set the loop section as the middle. Like someone said, AKAIs been doing it for years. Many formats support them. Once you get the hang of it it won't be as time consuming and much of a chore (seeing as how you chose something to loop then you should enjoy hearing it over and over again.

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superddman wrote:I don't know but many of the things you guys have mentioned are time consuming and not that convienient.
Time consuming? Can be - depends on the nature of the thing you're trying to loop and the tools you have at your disposal.

Sorry but good looping is an an art and a science and like most arts and sciences, require skill, expertise, patience, discipline and experience. In the early days of sampling, you just had to manually set loop start and end point and, using just your ears to get a clean loop, adjust those back and forth until you arrived at something acceptable.

Nowadays, samplers have all sorts of sample editing tools to assist in the process (not least of which is a waveform display so that you can 'see' what you're doing). And if they don't help, there are specialist bits of software such as INFINITY (Mac OS9 only) and ZERO-X (PC only) to assist in the creation of the perfect loop. ZERO-X expands upon the crossfade loop idea to smooth out loops but INFINITY is altogether more 'intelligent' and really can 'loop the unloopable' as Antares claim. But even with these, some manual setting of parameters is required.

Not that convenient? Maybe not but let's face it, the whole music making process is "not that convenient" whether it's banging out loops on an MPC or creating virtual symphony orchestras in Logic or recording a rock band to 24-track tape ... or learning guitar, violin, piano ... whatever.

Sampling in particular is a very complex process and I doubt we'll ever see a 'one button sampler' that does it all with a single key press... or rather, that does it *well* with a single key press.

That little lecture aside, if you think your method is 'new', with respect, I suspect you don't quite understand the basic principles of sampling and looping because all you have described is what some of us have been doing for the best part of 20 years or more in one way or another!


Steve

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hollowsun wrote:I suspect you don't quite understand the basic principles of sampling and looping because all you have described is what some of us have been doing for the best part of 20 years or more in one way or another!
:hihi:
superddman wrote:(I am smart, eh? :) )
Errr... no, sorry. You're not. :shrug:

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