I'm sure this has been addressed here before, but i've been wondering about one thing for a while.
Is there any rules to the relation between the key or chords used on a break, chorus, or bridge of a song, and the key of the main parts or verses of a song.
For example, if i'm playing a song that goes something simple like G-D-C-C during the main verses, and i want to introduce a key change; can i go anywhere, or are our brains trained to only accept certain 'options'?
This is something that i guess i can figure out with my ears, but i'm curious about the theory behind it.
Cheers.
bridge key rules
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- KVRAF
- 2654 posts since 13 Mar, 2004
Ok, I'll go for the easiest one probably:
In your case you could make the second C a C7 instead which leads F-major. (always 7 semitones down). This is the principle of the dominant 7th chord. Like in C you would go in a simple cadence: C(I) - F(IV) - G(V) -G7 ->C
If you put G-D-C-C7, the C7 can be interprated as the dominant seventh (V) of F which leads you to F-major.
In your case: G-D-C-C7-F...
That's a classical key change and there's also a "rule", saying that key changes have to be "prepared".
Another idea if you are referring to variation of chords as opposed to key changes:
If you have a G-D-C-C progression, the key is not finally defined.
It could be in C (V - II - I progression, taking the D as the major variation of II) or it could be in G (I - V - IV).
As I'm also far from an expert in theoretical stuff, I usually do it like this:
Decide in which key a progression is i like for the verse or chorus, then see what other chords are available in that key and sound ok to my ears - no expert way of course...
In your case you could make the second C a C7 instead which leads F-major. (always 7 semitones down). This is the principle of the dominant 7th chord. Like in C you would go in a simple cadence: C(I) - F(IV) - G(V) -G7 ->C
If you put G-D-C-C7, the C7 can be interprated as the dominant seventh (V) of F which leads you to F-major.
In your case: G-D-C-C7-F...
That's a classical key change and there's also a "rule", saying that key changes have to be "prepared".
Another idea if you are referring to variation of chords as opposed to key changes:
If you have a G-D-C-C progression, the key is not finally defined.
It could be in C (V - II - I progression, taking the D as the major variation of II) or it could be in G (I - V - IV).
As I'm also far from an expert in theoretical stuff, I usually do it like this:
Decide in which key a progression is i like for the verse or chorus, then see what other chords are available in that key and sound ok to my ears - no expert way of course...
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JumpingJackFlash JumpingJackFlash https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=44005
- KVRian
- 1227 posts since 10 Oct, 2004
My Introduction to Modulation may be helpful to you.pascual wrote:I'm sure this has been addressed here before, but i've been wondering about one thing for a while.
Is there any rules to the relation between the key or chords used on a break, chorus, or bridge of a song, and the key of the main parts or verses of a song.
For example, if i'm playing a song that goes something simple like G-D-C-C during the main verses, and i want to introduce a key change; can i go anywhere, or are our brains trained to only accept certain 'options'?
This is something that i guess i can figure out with my ears, but i'm curious about the theory behind it.
Cheers.
Basically, you can go anywhere if you can pull it off successfully. Certain key changes are much easier to accomplish than others however. Modulating between between "closely related keys" is easy, and relatively common. These are keys which have the same key signature, or where the new key has only one sharp or one flat more than the original key. (tonic, subdominant, dominant and the relative majors/minors of each). Most classical music modulates between these.
However, modulations to more remote keys are also possible, and often produce a more distinct contrast. Such modulations can be harder to pull off convincingly though, but if you experiment, you can usually get something to sound good.
In pop music, one of the most often used devices is where the final chorus is a tone higher than the previous material (modulating to the supertonic major). For best effect, there will usually be a drop-out of some kind before this (often as part of the middle-eight).
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- KVRAF
- 2654 posts since 13 Mar, 2004
Just noticed that I was trying to explain basically the same but I think you did it way better.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 533 posts since 15 Jul, 2003 from costa rica / oregon
Woa JJF; this is great material. I'm probably gonna have to read it various times before it sinks in. I know how to read music. I play a little piano and been playing guitar for 20 years, but I've never taken any music theory classes, so words like subtonic are way above my head at the moment....but i'm planning to change that!!
There is a huge library a couple of blocks away from my house.
Thanks a lot!
There is a huge library a couple of blocks away from my house.
Thanks a lot!
paz por esos mundos
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- KVRist
- 254 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
You know I learnt a LITTLE bit of theory, actually quite a bit in my 13 years+ of piano trainig, but I've forgotten most of the theory side, even some of the terminology.
But the thing is, when I'm writing a tune, I just experiemnt, you can HEAR what will 'work' for a bridging note/chord, or for a cadence etc etc. The rules are just confusing to me. It's far easier, quicker and more intuitive just to TRY different notes. Try one note (fail), try another (fail), try another, that works, lets go with it. You know? And when I look over this theory again, it seems that it does support the stuff i write (bridging & cadences ete), ie I have been inadvertantly doing what the theory says you're "allowed to do".
Even with something like modulation! Just try! YOu will be able to hear if it doesnt work?! Am I speaking crap?
Just a thought, but again, I don't really know my stuff that well, I just try to play what sounds right. Very interesting thread though, thanks!
But the thing is, when I'm writing a tune, I just experiemnt, you can HEAR what will 'work' for a bridging note/chord, or for a cadence etc etc. The rules are just confusing to me. It's far easier, quicker and more intuitive just to TRY different notes. Try one note (fail), try another (fail), try another, that works, lets go with it. You know? And when I look over this theory again, it seems that it does support the stuff i write (bridging & cadences ete), ie I have been inadvertantly doing what the theory says you're "allowed to do".
Even with something like modulation! Just try!
YOu will be able to hear if it doesnt work?! Am I speaking crap?Just a thought, but again, I don't really know my stuff that well, I just try to play what sounds right.
Very interesting thread though, thanks!