Nonstandard notation systems

[whyterabbyt]

Would anyone have any decent resources for graphical notation/scoring systems that would be suitable for 'non traditional' composition.

Things that would cover the kind of scoring you'd expect of Stockhausen or the like.

[Xenakios]

I'd be very interested in this, too...However I'm afraid there isn't much available.

The first score example is from Iannis Xenakis' Mycenae Alpha, realized on the proprietary UPIC system. Something similar can be done on Metasynth, which is Mac-only software. Metasynth's another shortcoming besides the platform issue is that it handles the graphical score as bitmaps (so it loses resolution when stretching/rotating/etc the images), not as vectors/curves, like the original UPIC system apparently did. The crossplatform program IanniX was intended to be a native-processing replacement for the UPIC, but I think the programmers took a wrong route in designing it. It, for example, has no audio generation/processing capabilities of it's own. The actual sound has to be realized on something like csound or PureData (PD), which are not terribly convenient to use.

The third example I think is a screenshot from PD. I tried using those graphical sequencing abilities of it, but it was too complex to come up with anything directly usable, IMHO.

So, it seems I should really start coding my own system, that should be a texture generator/granular synthesis-system of some sorts, with a graphical approach to designing sounds...But I don't think I'm gonna come up with any concrete results for some time...

Oh, just realized...Were you asking also for sound synthesis/processing features? If it's just notation you are after, I'm sure even programs like Finale and Sibelius have some graphical scoring abilities nowadays...Or you could pick up some vector graphics drawing program, I guess...

-X

[whyterabbyt]

I'd be very interested in this, too...However I'm afraid there isn't much available.

No, there isnt, really. Ive done a fair bit of looking recently, but Ive found very little. Was hoping someone might have more references/pointers than Ive been able to find.

The first score example is from Iannis Xenakis' Mycenae Alpha, realized on the proprietary UPIC system. Something similar can be done on Metasynth, which is Mac-only software. Metasynth's another shortcoming besides the platform issue is that it handles the graphical score as bitmaps (so it loses resolution when stretching/rotating/etc the images), not as vectors/curves, like the original UPIC system apparently did. The crossplatform program IanniX was intended to be a native-processing replacement for the UPIC, but I think the programmers took a wrong route in designing it. It, for example, has no audio generation/processing capabilities of it's own. The actual sound has to be realized on something like csound or PureData (PD), which are not terribly convenient to use.

Yeah, Ive had a look at the available info on UPIC and IanniX, but its not quite in a state useful to what Im looking for.

The third example I think is a screenshot from PD.

Its the score for a piece called Solitude by Hans-Christoph Steiner. Its closer to the visual layout style Im interested in.

Oh, just realized...Were you asking also for sound synthesis/processing features? If it's just notation you are after, I'm sure even programs like Finale and Sibelius have some graphical scoring abilities nowadays...Or you could pick up some vector graphics drawing program, I guess...

Anything, really. Im looking for prior art and useful implementations, as research, really; this is for an MSc course. As long as it can output something I can post-process into a score which can be played back in realtime. (CSound, audio, MIDI, OSC) whatever. But not just a drawing package; Im really looking for existing implementations of a cohesive system.

[Kingston]

Here's something that might be of interest. I found it remembering some of the onomatopoetry of a piece I've performed in an 8 section choir> Epitaph for Moonlight, 1968; 6 min; choir SATB; Berandol and Universal.

http://www.patria.org/arcana/Programnotes.pdf

It's a shame it doesn't contain the actual notation, but it was somewhat reminiscent of that Stockhausen example of yours - just had much more detail, clues for improvisation and footnotes for the choirmaster to decide on the direction of each section.

[Toxikator]

Not to overturn anything here, but can I ask "why"? Seems REAL impractical.

[Xenakios]

Toxicator, on the contrary...If you want to make music without much relation to traditional harmonies etc, this kind of graphical approach can be most useful.

-X

[Kingston]

Not to overturn anything here, but can I ask "why"?

interpretation. it could be vague notation for a modular synthesizer, which was somewhat the norm in the early days, or it could be an arbitrary representation of harmony and structure (spatial notation, anyone?) for performances that might benefit from thinking outside the box.

I'm sure you can understand how standardised systems may fail here.

[whyterabbyt]

Not to overturn anything here, but can I ask "why"? Seems REAL impractical.

Why? Because I 'm interested in a composition system which reflects my composition methods.

And there's nothing impractical about it. It has been done before. Know much of the history of electroacoustic composition? I already posted images of three genuine scores, two of which are implementations which defy your assumption. Try thinking outside your own preconceptions.

Now, if you have nothing practical to add, would you mind letting me find out if anyone might be able to point me in the direction of information that's actually useful to my research project, without making fairly useless comments which deliberately undermine the point of my question.

If you want to discuss abstract notation's usefulness, please start a thread which covers that. I want to know about existing implementations or research, whether computer based or not.

[whyterabbyt]

Here's something that might be of interest.

Indeed. Thanks!

[nuffink]

Have a google for melodic contour, Sean. It might lead you down some interesting avenues.

[whyterabbyt]

Have a google for melodic contour, Sean. It might lead you down some interesting avenues.

Ta. In fact, if anyone can just think of google keywords to suggest, that'd be damn useful, because Ive kind of exhausted all the variations on 'graphical score' 'visual music' and 'nonstandard notation' I can think of.

[nuffink]

"Music visualisation"? Except that you want the reverse - auralisation of a visual image.

[Km7]

You could also come up with your own ways for notating and graphical approach.
Auralisation of visual image is something vague and depends on the composer and listener. For instance, I do it when create ambient music.

[nuffink]

Auralisation of visual image is something vague and depends on the composer and listener. For instance, I do it when create ambient music.

I beg to differ. There's nothing vague about clicking notes into a piano roll, which is just a form of auralisation of a visual image. The way I read it, rabbyt is trying to do something as functional in a different form.

[whyterabbyt]

You could also come up with your own ways for notating and graphical approach.

I could. And probably will, in some way at least, since this is part of my postgrad research. However its important to the process to know what exists already. Otherwise its not research, its justifying what I did without any perspective or context. And since its not a BA, its an MSc, I cant get away with doing that.