Why are you using prepared grooves?

[EoN604]

Having scoffed at the concept of not using loops in an earlier post in this thread, I must admit I ALWAYS start with my own kick, hi's & snares, etc, always lay down my own basic percussion, and then add loops in afterwards to 'fill it in' a bit. My loops/grooves sit in the back of the mix. I also use a relatively high "high pass filter" on my loops, giving me control of the kick, bass & key percussion elements down low. Is this how others do it?

I've never used pre-recorded loops as the fundamental percussion of my tracks, not that I have anythign against it (as long as it's not a well known preset on a groove synth that people will recognise in a second!), but more that it'd take out the fun for me

[Toxikator]

I've used amen breaks on more than one occasion, though it was typically for a breakdown and not the entire track (but that's just because I do a lot of rock drumming)

[Hewitt Huntwork]

I think this debate goes like so: KvRians who want to write good music have better things to do than grab the crutch of "did it all myself"ism and just get on with it. If they've got a killer bassline and need a break, and hey presto! there's this awesome break sitting in a Groove Criminals folder on their HD, they drop it in, and don't look back.

Then there are the people who don't have clue one about songwriting, but fancy themselves songwriters because they can hammer out amazing-sounding drum loops in their tracks. These people are just KILLED by the idea that someone can circumvent essentially everything that constitutes their creative process and still have a high-quality track... and, failing any real ability to attack the track itself, instead attack the creative process, saying that it's "lazy" or "not right" because John Q. Brilliant doesn't spend 6 hours fine-tuning his kick and bass.

That's not to say that people who have very little conventional "musical" experience are less musicians... I'd just wager that anyone spending more time processing beats than writing melodies/harmonies is either a) not offended by the notion of loop use because they know full well that their music cannot be creatively expressed through precanned percussion, or b) get on KvR to complain because in spite of their efforts they can't seem to surpass the sound of a REXmix demo track.

I tend to agree with you, but I think you're ~maybe~ overstating your case a bit.

Another thing to consider that we haven't quite touched on (but you started to get at above) is that if you're writing a song that has vocals and lyrics, your idea about what constitutes originality might be different from someone who makes instrumental music. If somebody makes tracks that are defined by their production, rather than words/chords/melody, I would expect that person to have a different viewpoint about the role of loops in their compositions.

[Hewitt Huntwork]

I'm using drum loops as an example of a general trend I've been noticing, in music and in many other aspects of society.

I've had to warn my grandad about taking all his beefs with the world in general and combining them into one homogeneos rant. It's a sign of advancing years...

I agree that laziness is becoming a problem in society. But on the other hand, we also have lots of new and exciting ways of doing jobs and solving problems. Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone's being lazy, or just approaching a problem from a new angle...

One time I was with my dad in a small-town restaurant. The decor was ~ahem~ folksy, to say the least. There was a painted-and-then-glued-to-construction-paper macaroni thing that I couldn't believe was up on the wall. I pointed it out to my dad, and his response was that millions of people had to paint macaroni and glue it to construction paper in order for there to be a single Picasso.

Some art is the byproduct of the fact that art exists. Macaroni is everywhere! It's part of the natural order.

[Talkin Ape]

I use loops/grooves that come with GB sparingly and mainly because I see them as a license free sample bank, and also as my absent band members. I don't have a band.

Join my band!

[audioaquatic]

I tend to come down on the anti-loop side of things, but frankly it's hard to see how loops are much different from the way Phil Spector, Joe Meek or Berry Gordy used to work (to use well-known and well-regarded examples).

Where the producer writes a tune, hires musicians, tells them what to play, and records the results. He may not play a lick, but he ends up with most of the money and fame, even if the record doesn't have his name on it.

Is that really so different from using loops? Hard to see how, especially now that top session musos release their own loop CDs.

I think a lot of this debate springs from the number of one-man/one-woman acts around (including me). If you're responsible for everything, you either want/need help in the form of loops, and so feel loops are fine, or feel responsible to create something new for each element, and so feel loops are a type of cheating.

One thing that intrigues me is the idea of doing things more in the old style. That is, not bother playing everything myself, but instead of using loops use other musicians as essentially session players, whether in a studio or in your personal studio. I've done a bit of this and it can be both very rewarding and way easier than doing everything myself. Of course, it does require access to decent players with reasonably close outlooks to yours (or an interesting session where they get to try new things!).

I haven't messed with loops much, but I choose to see them as justifiable in this sense: why can't loops be viewed as poor-man's session players?

Becker & Fagan had real guys and unlimited studio resources ; Lennon & McCartney only had to hum the shit