Here's one for the ages

[Toxikator]

We talk a lot about classical, Jazz, and I guess to some extent then probably the blues.

Anyone have any experience with Honky Tonk/Nashville Country?

I canNOT seem to figure out the backbone of the style.

[VicDiesel]

What's the problem? Use simple chords, and write an actual melody, something you whistle.....

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/tabs/cline- ... -7042.html

And that's probably one of the more adventurous ones.

But I don't have active experience with producing country. I just listen and dance to it.

Victor.

[Toxikator]

It's got this absolutely bizarre chromaticism to it that no one seems to notice.

I mean look at that. It's got i#7s, #iio7s, IV7s, etc.

It's especially odd considering that country sounds so consonant (compared to other genres like Jazz that utilize these things for dissonance)

[VicDiesel]

It's got this absolutely bizarre chromaticism to it that no one seems to notice.

I mean look at that. It's got i#7s, #iio7s, IV7s, etc.

It's especially odd considering that country sounds so consonant (compared to other genres like Jazz that utilize these things for dissonance)

It's not all that wild. It's still essentially circle of fifths. But yeah, it's not three-chord stuff. The guys writing/arranging/playing that stuff were craftsmen and very experienced. No 17-year old coffee house guitar strummers.

Victor.

[Toxikator]

Yeah, but I love 3-chord country and Red dirt stuff, too...

I guess the question is "what makes it work"? I've had that same question about the blues, too... how is the major minor ambiguity (of both the blues and honky-tonk leads) to be treated?

[Sascha Franck]

I've had that same question about the blues, too... how is the major minor ambiguity (of both the blues and honky-tonk leads) to be treated?

What do you exactly mean by "how is it treated"?

[Toxikator]

I mean just that. what sort of theories govern the sequence of m3-M3, etc. In the blues, it's usually just bent from one to the other, but as you get into certain country styles that falls apart and theres a lot of chromatic movement across the m3-M3, the m6-M6, and even the M2-m2.

[Sascha Franck]

I mean just that. what sort of theories govern the sequence of m3-M3, etc. In the blues, it's usually just bent from one to the other, but as you get into certain country styles that falls apart and theres a lot of chromatic movement across the m3-M3, the m6-M6, and even the M2-m2.

Yeah well, true.
Personally, even if I sort of started as a blues player (err, well, as much as you can, growing up in the northest city of germany...), I got a bit tired of the same old bendings and phrasings after a while. Then I finally started listening to some of the more modern blues players, such as Robben Ford, which seem to have a less traditional approach towards playing around with all the "vague" scale degrees. For instance, from transcribing a bit of Mr. Ford, I know that rather often he would simply treat all the main three chords as mixolydian, with the most exeptions of this happening on the dominant chord (which would then sometimes be treated in a jazzy dominant way or in a pure blues fashion).
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Also, I found it making quite some sense to me to treat the I7 chord as some sort of a mixture between mixolydian and dorian. I couldn't give less of a damn about the often called b5s. These, at least to me, are just chromatic passing notes and I may rest on them for a while to create some tension in any case (regardless of style that is).
Modern country players seem to do it similar - mixing up jazz-scalar approaches with some "common" blues phrasing - the latter (at least IMO) being the way more important thing anyways. To me, the phrasings (such as call and response and motiv-ish development) make up for a big deal of what blues is all about.
However, just take a listen to someone such as Brent Mason (apparently the most recorded guitar player alive) and you'll see what I mean. He's constantly (and, seemlessly) switching between typical country fingerpicking patterns, blues phrases and scalar jazzy things.

[Toxikator]

I guess the thing about the "vague" scale degrees is I'm not realy sure how to work with them; they're so vague .

I have a hard time, I suppose, figuring out when the m3 is appropriate and when the M3 is appropriate; the tritone is no biggie for me, and the 7th is also usually pretty simple.

I can never decide whether to accent the m3, accent the M3, accent both, or do a lot of bending/crushing to approximate the B3.

[Sascha Franck]

I can never decide whether to accent the m3, accent the M3, accent both, or do a lot of bending/crushing to approximate the B3.

I assume there's no rule for that. So you simply decide what sounds best to you (as every so often).

To me, as some sort of rule of thumb, using the 3- on a dom7th chord often makes things sound more "bluesy" indeed. Or even more "rocky". Whatever.
When it comes to improvising, I may sometimes just use mixolydian for a more "tamed" sound and when things start to get flashy, I may switch to, say, some minor pentatonic stuff (and probably still bend the 3- a bit up, one of the nice things when dealing with guitars). Could easily post an example.

[Toxikator]

A MIDI example? Because I would be forever greatful for one.

[Sascha Franck]

No, just an MP3 snippet. Bluesy guitar playing doesn't exactly translate well to MIDI (even if I still have a MIDI guitar converter somewhere...).

[Toxikator]

Well yeah, but then what good does it do me? I can LISTEN to the blues all over the place; I can't, conversely, figure out what the hell is being played

[Sascha Franck]

Hm, ok. Could try to record something with more or less detailed descriptions tomorrow.

[Toxikator]

SWEET!

Advance thanks, mate.