KVR Audio

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:13 pm

I only hope that Arturians will re-consider to work on the CS80V rather than thrash the old projects if they're any more valuable; they have all the hints and for sure they have a real CS80 at home where to get measures etc; the CS80V was made with hurry and I suppose it was done to ride the ModularV's success wave...mine are just hopes, otherwise I'll look around if anybody wants to support me...

bg · Post by bg » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:01 pm

Sam@Megablastic wrote:
hifiboom wrote:
Kire wrote:Hi!

I made a patch for Vaz Modular that I think recreates the typical CS-80 brass. I have never played the real one. I've just heard sounds on internet.

In the demo there is the brass-patch and a bass-patch (also Vaz Modular)

Watch your speakers! Vaz is a wild beast!

http://www.kiresounds.se/downloads/Vazcs80.mp3
Hey Kire,

as we can hear in that demo, VAZ is way more able to emulate a realistic Vangelis sound than CS-80V....

Very nice patch...
VAZ is really cool stuff... a little too sharp at the top range somethimes...
and a little bit modulation is missing ....
Have to agree hear, the Vaz example sounds way thicker and analog. I'll have to check that vsti out

I agree. There's something very subtle going on in the filter and envelope in the VAZ patch that sounds very much like a CS-80. I tried to duplicate with CS-80V, but I couldn't.

-bart

AndreasKrebs · Post by **AndreasKrebs** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:14 pm

Still there's one (probably important) question open: why would anyone like to sound like Vangelis? Please don't get me wrong: Vangelis is without doubt one of THE high priests of synthesizer music and a real artist (and this is probably the real problem here).
So - apart from the obvious interest if you do something like a Vangelis cover band

: what's the point in sounding like him? There's nothing to win here, really. Any attempt to sound "like Vangelis" will end in "ok, but Vangelis is better" (of course he is!).
What's your motivation?
I personally love Vangelis' music very much but the ultimate necessity for me is to find my own voice and sound (speak my very own musical language, so to say).
Sorry, if this is somewhat off-topic in this fine technical thread

Cheers,
Andreas

Milos · Post by **Milos** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:17 pm

xRAVENx wrote:Kind of like that? I'm personally rather fond of bladerunner.

Wow,it sounds beautifull-great patch indeed.I'll soon post my presets of Timewarp 2600(Hunterkiller ,I didn't forgot

)
I would like to ask you to share your patches with me and the rest of the crew

It's the only synth in my setup now

and cause you can play it in poly mode,you can make some really lush pad and string sounds that was not possible with original.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:18 pm

AndreasKrebs wrote:Still there's one (probably important) question open: why would anyone like to sound like Vangelis? Please don't get me wrong: Vangelis is without doubt one of THE high priests of synthesizer music and a real artist (and this is probably the real problem here).
So - apart from the obvious interest if you do something like a Vangelis cover band : what's the point in sounding like him? There's nothing to win here, really. Any attempt to sound "like Vangelis" will end in "ok, but Vangelis is better" (of course he is!).
What's your motivation?
I personally love Vangelis' music very much but the ultimate necessity for me is to find my own voice and sound (speak my very own musical language, so to say).
Sorry, if this is somewhat off-topic in this fine technical thread
Cheers,
Andreas

Well, It's a valid question.

I'd say that imitating the 'sound' of Vangelis would be a good educational excercise. It goes without saying.

You have guitar players imitating their guitar 'heroes', while learning, and here, i see the same. So in effect, there is a LOT to win... basically a greater insight into synthesis and live sound control ( performance) then composition. In this day and age of sequenced rigid electronica, sometimes devoid of melodic content and live performance, i see it as a benefit.

I hope I don't sound pretentious and old....

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:24 pm

bg wrote:
Sam@Megablastic wrote:
hifiboom wrote:
Kire wrote:Hi!

I made a patch for Vaz Modular that I think recreates the typical CS-80 brass. I have never played the real one. I've just heard sounds on internet.

In the demo there is the brass-patch and a bass-patch (also Vaz Modular)

Watch your speakers! Vaz is a wild beast!

http://www.kiresounds.se/downloads/Vazcs80.mp3
Hey Kire,

as we can hear in that demo, VAZ is way more able to emulate a realistic Vangelis sound than CS-80V....

Very nice patch...
VAZ is really cool stuff... a little too sharp at the top range somethimes...
and a little bit modulation is missing ....
Have to agree hear, the Vaz example sounds way thicker and analog. I'll have to check that vsti out
I agree. There's something very subtle going on in the filter and envelope in the VAZ patch that sounds very much like a CS-80. I tried to duplicate with CS-80V, but I couldn't.

-bart

Bart
Vaz has a good bottom end that seems to be missing into the CS80V

but....

Is Vangelis' sound what you're looking for or are you looking for the sound of a CS80? If your answer is #2 you will find some limitations in autenticity even in Vaz; the CS is 2x8 monosynths so each synth has its own settings and no synth can still come close.

SARcazm · Post by **SARcazm** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:36 am

himalaya wrote:
AndreasKrebs wrote:Still there's one (probably important) question open: why would anyone like to sound like Vangelis? Please don't get me wrong: Vangelis is without doubt one of THE high priests of synthesizer music and a real artist (and this is probably the real problem here).
So - apart from the obvious interest if you do something like a Vangelis cover band : what's the point in sounding like him? There's nothing to win here, really. Any attempt to sound "like Vangelis" will end in "ok, but Vangelis is better" (of course he is!).
What's your motivation?
I personally love Vangelis' music very much but the ultimate necessity for me is to find my own voice and sound (speak my very own musical language, so to say).
Sorry, if this is somewhat off-topic in this fine technical thread
Cheers,
Andreas
Well, It's a valid question.

I'd say that imitating the 'sound' of Vangelis would be a good educational excercise. It goes without saying.

You have guitar players imitating their guitar 'heroes', while learning, and here, i see the same. So in effect, there is a LOT to win... basically a greater insight into synthesis and live sound control ( performance) then composition. In this day and age of sequenced rigid electronica, sometimes devoid of melodic content and live performance, i see it as a benefit.

I hope I don't sound pretentious and old....

Good answer! There's an immense satisfaction in nailing a known sound, regardless of whether you actually use it or not in your own tracks. I also used to try and do it alot in my distant youth with my gtr (Page's chugs; Gilmore's Shine On leads and Santana's looong sustain, etc), all with the ultimate aim of getting my sound. Never happened tho, as I ended up bing a pretty lousy, albeit enthusiastic, guitarist

mkastrup · Post by **mkastrup** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:26 pm

classic wrote:
Good morning everybody.

You all know the sound of Vangelis music.
I love this sound very much.
I would like to find out which vst would produce this
sound best.

Normally I'm making symphonic orchestra music for my personal pleasure.
Which vst fit the best to recreate such a symphonic sound?

Ähhhhhhhhm..If free...would be best.

If you give up on VST then try Reason and my XSynth Library

http://www.xsynth.com/demos/XS_ExtremeTails_01.mp3

http://www.xsynth.com/demos/XS_SpaceAtmosphere_01.mp3

http://www.xsynth.com/demos/XS_BladeRunner_01.mp3

/Michael

AndreasKrebs · Post by **AndreasKrebs** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:24 pm

himalaya wrote:I'd say that imitating the 'sound' of Vangelis would be a good educational excercise. It goes without saying. [...] So in effect, there is a LOT to win... basically a greater insight into synthesis and live sound control ( performance) then composition. In this day and age of sequenced rigid electronica, sometimes devoid of melodic content and live performance, i see it as a benefit.

Agreed, of course. However, maybe, for this purpose it is not necessary to match the sound exactly. It is secondary. Or even worse: the most important thing for learning Vangelis' way of playing Keyboard would be a good keyboard with lots of foot pedals, sliders and *polyphonic* aftertouch. Why don't we see any flamewars about this? (Don't want to see flame wars at all, but noone seems to care that todays keyboards are mediocre at best.)
Cheers,
Andreas

Barbarossa · Post by **Barbarossa** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:38 pm

Brok Landers, i bow my head. This is really good.

sdv · Post by **sdv** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:31 pm

I would check Sytrus and zeta+.
While no software can touch the great hardware these two synths can produce some of the fine bell and pad sounds found in Blade Runner.

sdv · Post by **sdv** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:09 pm

brok landers wrote:0.
draft.mp3 128kb

Damn that is sweet!! You captured alot of the sounds and nuances... well done!!

Boulotaur2024 · Post by **Boulotaur2024** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:23 pm

Yea really good track, loving it more and more... and even more since the last time you posted it here on kvr.

Only thing I don't like is the the violin sound at 0:04 sec. which sound a bit plastic and lifeless (maybe not enough reverb ?) to me. Maybe you should try with real "nowadays standard" orchestra samples. Same thing for the snare, too 909-ish (once again IMO) and not enough 'space' to it.

But the guitar/key sound which drives the melody is definitely incredibly on-spot, I love it, this honestly gives me shivers. And yea, as sdv said, you perfectly captured the nuances of his playing. Pizzicato are very very nice, contrary to the other violin attack sound. Of course the Cs-80-like brass lead is perfect but everyone already knows about your programmaing skills.

What about polishing it and releasing a 'final' version of this

?

Btw brok, there was this AAR vs. CSR thread (great one btw I'm sure we'd learn a lot by doing more of those 'sound creation thread') where you posted one of your track. I can't seem to find it again and I'd love to listen to it again. Do you still have it somewhere ?

edit : spoke to soon, found it again, it was called drowning_images.mp3 but the original link is down. Please upload it again, TIA !

sdv · Post by **sdv** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:30 pm

DJ_Bach wrote:I found that article about Vangelis in Ode magazine. It's a great read.
http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=3862

As much as I admire Vangelis and his music I think this article is a load of crap. I've heard Vangelis offer up his musical philosophy many times in other articles as well but he's just trying to keep up his mystique for brain-dead new-age listeners and movie execs.

Truth is he has a TON of hardware, engineers, sound designers and artists at his disposal to help him out and guide his process. And I have a hard time believing he can't read music... how else would/could he know key and chord changes... how could he understand the "music of the spheres" if he can't speak the language??

I'm not saying he's not talented it's just that he's not being honest... just like when Miles Davis says it's the "space between the notes that counts more than the notes played"... sounds mystical when coming from a legend but it's dishonest to a players talent and time spent practising and learning about music.

And another thing... who is Vangelis to be the arbiter of who and who should not be producing music. That's a narcisistic viewpoint that only one who can "channel the heavens" should compose music... F**k that attitude (unless we're talking about Kid Rock, man does he suck donkey balls)!!

Sequent · Post by **Sequent** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:42 pm

Well... is it about the notes? Or is it about the spaces in between the notes? I always rather thought it was about the spaces in between the notes, as well as the harmonics.

But that's just me.

As for reading music. Maybe he does read music and it's all part of some evil master plan - as you suggest.

Or maybe he really doesn't read music. AFAIK neither do Yanni, Hans Zimmer, and any number of well known musicians. There are people one can hire to take care of things like that - if you need to have it written for an orchestra, etc.

Van Gelis Sound.