hi all,
i'm wondering if anyone is aware of resources regarding harmonizing alternate scales. i've been goofing about with some of the wendy carlos tunings (alpha, beta, gamma) and scala's approximation of pelog and i really like the sounds i can get, but i have very little understanding of how to use these scales harmonically or what's been done in terms of using these scales to make "chords" (in quotes because it's not going to be a chord as we know it). obviously, the concepts will be quite different than diatonic harmony. i'm wondering if there's any good treatments on the topic that the folks here might know about.
just some background in case it helps: i'm familiar with but am not an expert in diatonic/functional harmony and modal harmony.
harmonizing alternate scales
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
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- KVRAF
- 1975 posts since 4 Feb, 2005
Well, I can only offer two advices:
For certain tunings, consonances are nonexistant. That is to say, in certain tuning systems (considering here asian ones, as I'm most familiar with them) using harmony just isn't done.
The other thing I can offer advice on are tuning systems based on the original pythagorean, such as:
Pythagorean
the various MeanTones
Just
in a way, Equal Temperament
For these remember that intervallic relationships are not absolute. I don't know much about scala setups but, for example, I'd imagine a pythagorean tuning system would be organized as C, C#, C##, Dbb, Db, D, etc... Remember that it's still to be played as a CMajor scale, but that a C maj chord is CEG, which is not the same as CFbG...
For other systems which AREN'T infinite, such as my favorite, Just intonation, it's important to build harmony AWAY from what are known as "Wolf" intervals; in these rounded systems, they're the intervals which are mistuned to make the scale cyclical.
For example, in C meantone, you would not sound the interval of E-G, as the fifth is actually a "diminished 6th" and sounds very sharp. In pythagorean (and I believe just systems as well), based on tuning of fifths, you would want to avoid the interval between "Bb" (actually A#) and F... the reason for this is the A# is tuned so that it matches an E#, but the F is tuned down from a C, and the interval is off by about a quarter semitone (the pythagorean comma) and is very nasty sounding.
Also remember for certain tuning systems that thirds aren't consonances. In many fractal systems, octaves and fifths are consonances, and all others are dissonances.
That's about all I know, except to say that you are on the frontier and I wish you luck (and report your findings!)
For certain tunings, consonances are nonexistant. That is to say, in certain tuning systems (considering here asian ones, as I'm most familiar with them) using harmony just isn't done.
The other thing I can offer advice on are tuning systems based on the original pythagorean, such as:
Pythagorean
the various MeanTones
Just
in a way, Equal Temperament
For these remember that intervallic relationships are not absolute. I don't know much about scala setups but, for example, I'd imagine a pythagorean tuning system would be organized as C, C#, C##, Dbb, Db, D, etc... Remember that it's still to be played as a CMajor scale, but that a C maj chord is CEG, which is not the same as CFbG...
For other systems which AREN'T infinite, such as my favorite, Just intonation, it's important to build harmony AWAY from what are known as "Wolf" intervals; in these rounded systems, they're the intervals which are mistuned to make the scale cyclical.
For example, in C meantone, you would not sound the interval of E-G, as the fifth is actually a "diminished 6th" and sounds very sharp. In pythagorean (and I believe just systems as well), based on tuning of fifths, you would want to avoid the interval between "Bb" (actually A#) and F... the reason for this is the A# is tuned so that it matches an E#, but the F is tuned down from a C, and the interval is off by about a quarter semitone (the pythagorean comma) and is very nasty sounding.
Also remember for certain tuning systems that thirds aren't consonances. In many fractal systems, octaves and fifths are consonances, and all others are dissonances.
That's about all I know, except to say that you are on the frontier and I wish you luck (and report your findings!)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
even though these aren't the scales i'm working with, there are some ideas here (e.g., thirds aren't consonances, dissonances occur on odd degrees) that i should keep in mind.
i guess i'll see what i come up with.
i guess i'll see what i come up with.
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- KVRist
- 295 posts since 19 Mar, 2006
If you download the latest scala, you can play tunings with the mouse in the chromatic clavier under the analyse menu. If you click on the little box on the right, you can check the option 'show chord image played'. Then when you play multiple keys with shift-mouse, it will say things like '4:5:6', '5:6:7', '6:7:9', etc. The lower the numbers the better.
You can't load .tun files though. You would need either the .scl version or input the ratios yourself.
Also, if you turn on 'microtuning midi relay' under tools, you can play the chromatic clavier with a midi keyboard.
You can also go to analyse menu, show chord presence, and it will dump out a couple hundred chords, lol.
I'd also recommend the book, 'Just Intonation Primer', by David B. Doty.
You can't load .tun files though. You would need either the .scl version or input the ratios yourself.
Also, if you turn on 'microtuning midi relay' under tools, you can play the chromatic clavier with a midi keyboard.
You can also go to analyse menu, show chord presence, and it will dump out a couple hundred chords, lol.
I'd also recommend the book, 'Just Intonation Primer', by David B. Doty.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul