Let's create simple tune as a guide!

[No name]

Ok, so I came to the conclusion after thinking it over for a few minutes that, after the last thread, that we could do something that would be a bit less abstract and a little more "hands on" for people like me who are not used to using the theory yet in their music. So what I propose is this, and it is really quite simple. I'll (try!!!) and come up with a basic chord progression for a song, and what we will do is this:

You (meaning everyone who reads this and wants to take part) will look over the progression that is written, and you will add/take away and refine it. Once we have a good progression that (almost ) everyone can agree on, we will go about writng the song. You will simply add your addition/subtractions to the full song as it progresses in your post, and we will discuss what goes best with it. I personally think this is a great idea because of many reasons. One being that it gives us a step by step "guide" on how to REALLY use this theory in a song, and as I've been figuring out lately (and unfortunately it should have been something I've known all along) is that talking about things gets you nowhere, you gotta really get in there and get you hands dirty. Asking abstract, random questions about curiosities often gives you some knowledge, but in the end doing it is what makes you a good musician. This project can give a lot of info, while at the same time keeping things in a realm that offers newbies to theory grasp the theory in a real world scenario. Another reason would be simply because I think it would be enjoyable and interactive, and it allows you to really see what other musicians and do so that you may be able to pick up a thing or two. I think when all the mumbo jumbo is brought up and we are dealing with theory WITHOUT the music then it really becomes far less enjoyable, and the less enjoyable the harder things seem to be! We will not get to deep into abstract things that are not immediately necessary for the song's creation as well, so that the thread doesn't drift off, but at the same time giving beginners a chance to test the waters before they stick one leg in. I suppose it allows for a more "gradual" learning curve, as compared to the other threads where it gets very deep very fast.

So what do you think? I have the initial idea here, but we can refine it and then get this thing started. Ideas?

[BertKoor]

What you're attempting to establish reminds me of this:


Six easy lessons starts on 2:50 and it's fully mastered at 3:50. An extremely simple progression is altered into a complex harmonization on the same melody. Only some rudiments of the original progression remained.

Knowing the theory doesn't help in harmonization. There are zillions of possible harmonies to add to a simple tune. None of them are better, just different...

[No name]

I know, and that wasn't technically my goal. My goal is not for the end result itself, but what was put into it and how everyone went about putting into it. I don't think the problem with most people including myself isn't that we have trouble coming up with things to make a song, it's understanding the structure behind the theory and behind the song that either leabe us in the dust or make it way harder than it would ever have to be creating a song, because personally i've found that when you don't have any theory, as I did up until about 2 months ago, you can find yourself pressing random keys, not truly understanding their relationship with eachother both as notes and as sets of notes (and by sets of notes I do mean chords). I hope that is clear, I wrote a lot.

[mr]

I was just waiting... I'm too new to contribute.
Tell me something: Chords progression first or melody first? When and why?

[Km7]

You can start with melody or with harmony - what comes to you first. If you start with harmony and come up with progression, then you should compose or improvise a melody over it. If you create the melody first, then you should harmonize it. Sometimes one could start with the organization of the form, with the rhythm section, with the bass line, etc. It is different, it depends on what has came to your mind first.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Tell me something: Chords progression first or melody first? When and why?

You can do either. - Whatever works for you, there is no 'correct' method.

I've done it both ways in the past, and from personal experience, I find that whatever you leave till last often suffers somewhat (creatively) because of it. - For example, you might come up with a fantastic chord sequence, but when you come to write the melody, you find that you're too limited, and you tend to keep it simple in order to fit the chords well.

The opposite is true also; you might have a fantastic melody, but you will then be more confined harmonising it, and perhaps use simpler harmony as a result.

Often, people are good at one, and lousy at the other (hence the need for orchestrators, arrangers and such like). - The true genius lies in having an excellent chord sequence and an excellent melody, but this is something even some 'professionals' struggle with.

Personally, I usually prefer writing melody first, then harmony later. - I find harmonising a melody is easier than doing it the other way around, but I can see that if you lack extensive knowledge of harmony, this may not be the case.

Try both ways, and see what you come up with!

And No name? - Go ahead and post your chord sequence!

[jens]

You can start with melody or with harmony - what comes to you first. If you start with harmony and come up with progression, then you should compose or improvise a melody over it. If you create the melody first, then you should harmonize it. Sometimes one could start with the organization of the form, with the rhythm section, with the bass line, etc. It is different, it depends on what has came to your mind first.

+1


I once covered the white stripes' 'seven nation army' - it's just melody and has basically no chords in it - so when I covered it I filled it up with chords - but often I start with a chord-progression and then add various melodies on top of it...