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anomoly · Post by **anomoly** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:46 am

Anyone know of some good piano/keyboard exercises? also if there's any websites with video and/or pictures, that would be very helpful also.

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:50 am

Do the first Hanon exercise in all 12 keys, with different dynamics and both staccato and legato, etc.

JumpingJackFlash · Post by **JumpingJackFlash** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:27 pm

anomoly wrote:Anyone know of some good piano/keyboard exercises? also if there's any websites with video and/or pictures, that would be very helpful also.

Scales, arpeggios and broken chords.
Do them right hand, then left hand, then both hands together. Try them over one octave, then two, then three, then four...
Try them in 3rds and in 6ths.
Try the chromatic scale, the whole-tone scale, dominant sevenths, diminished sevenths, and any other Scales, Modes and Chords which take your fancy.

Try everything in simple keys first, then try more complex keys. - But always get the finger positions right before you move on. You should really sue the recommended fingers; I remember not doing this when I started piano - I learned just used my fingers randomly, got into bad habits, and things only got worse over time. - Get it right to start with and it'll be much better in the long run.

Also, note that some 'complex' keys can actually be very easy on the piano. - B major used to be a particular favourite of mine, because the layout of black notes perfectly corresponds to your fingering. (Put your thumbs on B and E).

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:05 am

Chopin would teach his students the B major scale first. Or was that Liszt, I forget...

MoreDread · Post by **MoreDread** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:11 pm

http://www.pianonanny.com/ ?

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:15 pm

be careful with those hanon exercises, they can play havoc with your tone because they're not terribly musical. you can get the same effect by practicing some of the simpler bach stuff or diabelli sonatas, concentrating on musicality rather than velocity. scales and arpeggios are useful for warmups, but try to keep them musical too. speed should be a natural outgrowth of playing in a relaxed, disciplined way over time. anything else is going to end up hurting either your tone, your body, or both.

just my 2 cents, after wasting quite a bit of time on hanon at one point.

anomoly · Post by **anomoly** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:29 pm

thanx for all the advise, any other sites other than piano nanny that would actually show me?

and jmeire what do you mean to watch out with the Hanon exercises... it seems as though a good percent of piano players have used them. just wondering why you dont like them.

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:40 pm

the exercises in themselves aren't really a problem, it's a problem with the way they naturally lead you to play. they're all uniformly fast if played correctly and have zero musical content--it's not like proper etudes that have some phrasing or melodic content. so a person who leans very heavily on hanon or other digital exercises often ends up having a very lifeless approach to playing, without using nuances of volume or expression. also, if you play them incorrectly, with tension in your hands, the sheer repetitiveness of them can cause repeat motion injuries. any piano music can lead to this problem, but for some reason one sees it more on those who do speed exercises. if you spend 5 to 10 minutes a day with hanon (assuming an hour or more of overall daily practice), always with a metronome, and making certain you're playing in a relaxed (cannot be overemphasized) and musical way, they're fine and might even help build your technique. i just think there are better ways to spend your practice time, like with scales and arpeggios or playing etudes.

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:39 pm

Right, sometimes when you practice exercises, you're really only getting better at the exercise.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:03 am

While I am in no way qualified to make recommendations, I will offer my own humble opinion.

First of all, stay away from Hanon. These exercises are not good imo. I could elaborate over why I dont like these exercises, but that isnt strictly relevant. Just that I think they are not a good use of time.

Czerny exercises are popular and do cover alot of stuff. But they are also pretty bland.

Instead, practice Scarlatti sonatas, Bach Inventions, movements from Mozart, Clementi, Haydn sonatas. Pick music that covers the technical issues you wish to develop.

If you want to play stuff from the romantic era, the above will still help. But I would also think about doing Chopin preludes, Waltz's, Mazurkas, Nocturnes... building up to the etudes.

Do practice scales and arpeggios. But try to find music with them in aswell. I think that Mozart sonatas are great for scales, as they make you use various fingers. These sonatas are just great for finger technique imo.

When practicing technique, quality is more beneficial than quantity. You'll want to sit at the piano and 'investigate'. Experiment with different movements, motions, etc. You have these technical problems, and you have to sit down and work out the best motion to deal with them. It is not a matter of just mindlessly repeating drills in the hope that you will improve.

Hope this helps!

TB

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:06 am

anomoly wrote:thanx for all the advise, any other sites other than piano nanny that would actually show me?

and jmeire what do you mean to watch out with the Hanon exercises... it seems as though a good percent of piano players have used them. just wondering why you dont like them.

Do they?

Im no expert, but I dont know of any professional pianists who do Hanon. The only people who I know who do this stuff are little kids who get fed it to develop basic finger technique.

Technique is about the brain and the nervous system far more than it is the muscles. Hence, mindless drills will only take you so far. Intelligent practice is where the real strides are made.

TB

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:12 am

Gregjazz wrote:Chopin would teach his students the B major scale first. Or was that Liszt, I forget...

Chopin used B, C# and F# Major to begin with. The reason was that these scales involve mostly black keys, and are technically easier to play.

The main technical issue with playing scales is the problem of what to do with the thumb. On these grounds, many believe that C Major is the most difficult scale to play. Chopin knew this and he taught the mainly black key scales first as allow the thumb to pass more easily.

Scale technique is something of an little obsession of mine, lol. There is this huge debate over whether or not one should pass the thumb under the hand when playing fast legato scales. While I dont think its constructive to go into that right now, I do think I should point out that at faster tempos, you should not be REACHING under with the thumb.

If you like I can post up a video of what I consider to be good and bad motions for faster scales (ie, above 120bpm'ish). Im not a professional pianist, and my scales are far from being amazing. But I do think I can demonstrate the technique for you if that would help.

TB

peppy197 · Post by **peppy197** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:39 pm

I play Blues Hanon, it has

157

pages of jam-packed fast paced excercises.

Yechh!!

OK so maybe some say you do not pick up melodic improvisational tendencies.

BUT, I found that what the Hanon for blues does for me is to MAKE ME PAY ATTENTION

Or at least it allows me to feel the pace I could maintain if I paid attention...self-knowledge,
...or
knowledge of your instrument...same?

Melodic etude style excercises would make me drift off in reverie...IF that was all I did.

So maybe the two could live togrther?

BACH the Second

jopy · Post by **jopy** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:09 pm

peppy197 wrote:So maybe the two could live togrther?

i think everyone's generally saying that 10 minutes or so per day of pure technique exercises is indeed a good idea IF you are relaxed and play musically the whole time.

basically, any practicing has to be part of a system that includes everything you want to learn. if you just want to learn to play fast and clean, practice technique all day. if you just want to play complicated syncopations, play rhythmic exercises all day. if you just want simple evocative melodies, play phrasing exercises all day.

if you want to play with complete technical and expressive control, practice technical exercises, practice rhythms, practice phrasing, and practice performing (playing whole pieces with everything together).

it's not an either or thing, i think, it's "both and plus more."

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:16 pm

This might sound daft, but you can practice technique mentally, away from the keyboard.

You can also help memorize music this way. Try to visualise your hands playing the music (the bits that you've learned atleast). Practice it mentally.

Honestly, it works!

With respects to technique, its more about thinking about how to move. You can think of ideas to experiment with away from the keyboard.

TB

Piano/Keyboard Exercises...