Some Chord Progression Stuff

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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Toxikator wrote:Hm. Actually I like the approach, since it gives more credence to the voicing of the chord, but I always learned inversions by bass note.
It can be confusing certainly. - In classical theory, in the grand scheme of things, traditionally chord inversion depend exclusively on which note is lowest.

However, when (as with Sascha's examples) you are dealing purely with one group of instruments where you know that a bass is always going to be playing below, then you might talk about inversions purely in relation to that group. For example, you might have a horn section playing G-C-E, which on its own is obviously C major in second inversion. However, if you know you have a tuba (or something) beneath the horns playing a C, then overall the chord is in root position.

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Toxikator wrote: The only real reason for this is that if you play the root in the bass, the chord tends to sound "stable", which I suppose is particularly important when dealing with things like 9 and 11 options.
Sure. But that's what "modern" (for lack of a better word) voicings are all about.
Of course it all comes from entirely different approach than in whatever classical music. In jazz/rock/pop you usually just have a bass taking care of the root. As a result, you've got a lot of freedom regarding upper voicings.
Heck, in a typical standard swing jazz band you may even have the bass play almost the entire functional notes of a chord, so you could even skip those 3rds and 7ths in your voicings.
as I can't tell whether the "inverted" voicings you provided will have the same effect on the chord's function as 'true' (bass note) inversions.
Defenitely not. And especially, once it comes to tension notes, such as 9ths, the bass better gets out of the way...
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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JumpingJackFlash wrote:you are dealing purely with one group of instruments where you know that a bass is always going to be playing below, then you might talk about inversions purely in relation to that group.
Yeah, exactly. And that's what most music universities teach these days (well, as long as you're not dealing with classic studies).
The bass does what a bass does, the piano does what a piano does. Sure, in some compositions they're connected by means of arrangements, but very often they aren't.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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This is true. still, when block analyzing an entire progression you'd probably have to consider the bass note in the chord progression (really, you should consider all parts).

For example, if the bass guitar is playing C and the keys are playing EGB, then I'd call it a IM7 chord at that point (rather than analyze the piano voicing separately). If, on the other hand, the bass is playing E and the keys are playing EGB, I'd call it a iii chord. etc.
Image

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Ok, next of the chords I'd like to demonstrate some chord "enhancements" with is the dominant 7th chord.

The examples follow the same scheme as with the major chord examples.
Again, our root note is an F, so the basic 7th chord we'll be dealing with is an F7, F-A-C-Eb.

As you can see in the chord/scale list from a previous post, in a major key, a dominant 7th chord only exists once. Possible tension notes are 9 and 13.

I'll start with the 9th, following the "9 for 1" voicing "rule", replacing the F with a G.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... ts/7-9.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... di/7-9.mid
Should probably sound familiar.

So, let's just proceed to the next tension, the 13th. We get this by following the "13 for 5" rule, replacing the C with a D.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... s/7-13.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... i/7-13.mid
Some of the voicings may sound familiar as well.

Let's now just use both 9th and 13th together.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-9_13.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-9_13.mid
Probably a bit more sophisticated sounding, but believe me, we will put this to good use as well later on.

As with the major 7th chord, we also don't always need the 3rd in a dominant 7th chord (well, in a more functional progression it's often required, but more on that later...), so we can as well replace it with a 9th, just that this time it'd probably be named sus2 (even if you won't find that term often on dominant chords).
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -7sus2.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -7sus2.mid
Sounds probably a bit more "open" without a third present.

Ok, as you may perhaps remember from an earlier post, in quite some cases we may replace the 3rd with a 4th. I will write about the possible implementations of it later, for now I'll just post some examples, I'm 100% sure they will sound familiar to most of you.

Let's just start with a simply 7sus4 chord.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -7sus4.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -7sus4.mid

Then let's add a 9th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -9sus4.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -9sus4.mid

I forgot to do a 7sus4 version with the 13th only added, but by now you should perhaps be able to do it yourself when modifying the MIDI file. So here's a version with 9th and 13th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 13sus4.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 13sus4.mid
I like some of those sounds. Herbie Hancock anyone?

A few notes about dominant 7th chords: They can not only be used in connection with major tonic chords, they are also existing "on their own". The best example probably being the blues, in which we find dominant 7th chords on all the 3 main chords. Another example would be modal music (hence the Herbie Hancock reference, just listen to his album "Manchild"...).
So, these tensions might give you something to fool around with already.

Next post: Minor chord extensions.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Straight on to the minor 7th chords.
We will find 3 of them in our major keys, on degrees II, III and VI.
The two we will be dealing with most of the time are II and VI.
The usual tensions we can apply to them both are the 9th and 11th.

Same procedure as with the Fmaj7 and F7, the basic chord we'll be dealing with is Fmin7, F-Ab-C-Eb.

So let's just start with the 9th, as usually following the "9 for 1" rule, so our F becomes a G again.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-min9.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-min9.mid
Should as well sound rather familiar.

Now let's add the 11th, following the "11 for 5" rule, the C is replaced with a Bb.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -min11.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... -min11.mid
IMO, this sounds a bit more "open" or "vague" already.

And now let's add both the 9th and 11th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... in9_11.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... in9_11.mid
Even more of an "open" sound, I think. Still very useful, at least IMO.

Ok, I won't go into the details right now, but a minor7 chord we might be dealing with rather often, especially in a modal context, is the IImin7 chord. A common thing to do with this in a modal setting (also in some other cases, as usual, more on that later...) would be to replace the 7th with a 6th.
No further elaboration for now, just give it a listen, I'm sure some things will sound a bit familiar already.

For a start, the plain replacement of the 7th by the 6th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-min6.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7-min6.mid

Next, with an added 9th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... min6_9.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... min6_9.mid
A bit "spooky" already.

Unfortunately, I forgot the min6 with an 11th added only, so here's the chord with 9th and 11th.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 6_9_11.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 6_9_11.mid

Ok, that was it.

No stop. There's one chord of our major scale left, the min7b5 chord.
Well, usually, there's not much enhancements we can do with it. Replacing the 5th with the 11th would steal the most important note in it (we can do that, but it's just sound the same as a plain min7/11 chord).
But, for some reasons, we can as well replace the 3rd, even if on "normal" minor chords this isn't exactly possible. For the min7b5 chord it's common practice though.
So, our Fmin7b5 chord would be F-Ab-Cb-Eb, and we will just replace the Ab with a Bb.
Here it is:
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7b5_11.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... 7b5_11.mid

One thing you may notice with the min7b5 chord is that it's sounding rather "dispatched" from the root. And that's the very reason why we will almost never find it on it's own, it's almost always embedded into some progressions, whereas all the other three chord "types" can as well be used for one-chord-only vamps.

Next: Some notes (no, no scores...).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Ok, a few random notes.

When you fool around with the chord "enhancements" presented, make sure to keep an eye (err... ear) on those that you like. And of course on those that you don't.
Then, as a guideline, halftone steps between the two topmost voices of a chord usually are no good idea. They usually work everywhere else but not as the top notes. Of course, you may exactly want that very effect, but better don't try to give such a voicing to whatever horn sections (let alone choires), they won't love you anymore. I only kept them in my examples for completeness.

As you may see from all the sound examples, it's not always about the chord progressions.
IMO it's mostly about the musical style, and you can basically use like each and every progression and each and every chord type for each and every style (ok, admittedly, you won't have an easy time finding some NuMetal with maj7/#11/13 chords in it).

However, there's a lot to gain in understanding these fundamentals. And if you ask me, it's no rocket science either. Once you got the chords of the major scale covered and fooled around with them and some "enhancements" a bit, it'll most likely become a piece of cake.
The bottomline being that one should try to get the most out of things. If you only have a progression like I-V, don't say "oh, boring shit" but try to see whether you can put it to good use. And if you only have a one chord vamp, try to mangle it up as much as possible. There's really a lot of possibiities (as you can hopefully see by now, even if my examples might not be the most brilliantly performed ones).

Anyways, I will try to continue this by applying the various chord "enhancements" to a bunch of further chord progressions. It might then make a lot more sense. At least I hope so.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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The viiø7sus4 is the single most spectacular chord I have ever heard. Ever.

Most of this options stuff doesn't factor heavily into my music but my first listen through I knew that chord would be my new favorite of all time, even beyond the Viennese Quartal.

:D
Image

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Toxikator wrote:The viiø7sus4 is the single most spectacular chord I have ever heard. Ever.
Well, whatever floats your boat...

Btw, I was really thinking about naming it sus4 but decided otherwise, because (from its function and sound) it's still clearly a minor chord, regardless of the third missing and being respectlessly replaced. Varadin posted a nice explanation about that phenomen in another thread.
Still, either naming is completely misleading. Sus4 in all (well, almost all) other cases indicates a major 3rd suspended by the 4th. Minor (by most standards) indicates a minor third to be present in the actual voicing.
This very chord is nothing but a dilemma!

However, to put it to some use (and you can actually use the very same voicing twice), try it in a IImin7b5 - V7alt - I progression. All you need to do is move everything up a minor third.
Example: F-Bb-Cb-Eb up a minor third gives Ab-Db-D-Gb. Over a Bb bassnote that's just a Bb7/#9/b13 (or #5, whatever you prefer). Really a common thing in whatever jazzy context, especially as the even chromatic movement of all notes opens up for a lot of rhythmic possibilities. Of course it works as well on the plain min7b5 chord (just that the V chord in that case would feature a b9 instead of the more wicked sounding #9).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Wow, thank you very much Sascha Franck. :o :hail:
Very informative and the example sound files are extremely helpful.

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THREAD REANIMATION TIME!!!

Seriously tho this is a great thread. thanks Sascha. Still active :)

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Whoops, that was quite some thread bumping then...

- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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now this is a great post, makes things clear and goes into details many thanks,

i bought a book that tells you how to build chords and memorise them, i wondered what you guys thought about this,

it basically teaches you to play all major chords just triads (root pos) going around the circle of 5ths, then min triads, then expalins all the extended chords 7ths 9ths etc,

other people swear by learning all scales until you know them in your sleep,
with all these techniques i wonder which one to use to help me out,
L P B

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leighbeynon wrote:i bought a book that tells you how to build chords and memorise them, i wondered what you guys thought about this,

it basically teaches you to play all major chords just triads (root pos) going around the circle of 5ths, then min triads, then expalins all the extended chords 7ths 9ths etc,

other people swear by learning all scales until you know them in your sleep,
with all these techniques i wonder which one to use to help me out,
Are you talking about guitar or piano/keys here?
IMO this makes a lot of a difference, simply because key players can't just shift positions. I'm not saying that all keys "feel" the same on a guitar, but technically it's of rather little relevance whether I play Amin7 or Bbmin7.

Personally, I mostly studied (and use) the following "methods":
- Chords based on plain barré fingerings, root notes (as an orientation) to be found on the low E and A strings.
- A similar approach without actually playing things as barré chords (I may explain this approach later on...).
- Again a kinda similar approach, this time concentrating on the D and G strings, which are always used to play 3rds and 7ths (again, I may explain this, in case of interest).
- Triads, their inversions and possible tensions.
- 4 part voicings (to cover what I'd consider to be "common" chord/scale theory) and their inversions, usually played in a "drop 2" manner (second note from the top gets dropped an octave, that way all inversions can be played easily on a guitar).
- A kind of melody harmonizing approach, the most important note in the voicing being the top one. I try to add the required chord notes below.

I do then add tension notes or whatever to taste.

- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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sorry im talking about piano, im practising chords on my midi keyboard
L P B

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