KVR Audio

bebop · Post by **bebop** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:25 pm

very often the music stands in the void between notes

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:31 pm

Toxikator wrote:Naw, I can't play any chords like that. I tried it on a guitar and a key multisample.

So, no need to discuss any longer. I already said so, there's a few chords that will ONLY sound good on a guitar. On a real one.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:56 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Toxikator wrote:Naw, I can't play any chords like that. I tried it on a guitar and a key multisample.
So, no need to discuss any longer. I already said so, there's a few chords that will ONLY sound good on a guitar. On a real one.

Nuts to that.

I do not believe that there are musical ideas which are only valid on a certain set of strings on a certain piece of wood. There's just no way it's true. I could see where it might not work on keys, but a multisample of a guitar will have the same timbral qualities; as long as the chord is VOICED correctly (and I did) I can't imagine that the difference would be so great that the sonority would go from "great" to "this is awful".

But let's say it's true; have you TRIED it with the F#? the F just sounds like a mistake in the context to me.

EDIT: Wait, I see in a later post that you were talking about an F#7add4. Earlier you had said F7add4... which is it? BTW all I did was raise my F to F# in the progession I was working with; this isn't an F#M7#5add4 at all, it's actually an F#m7add4. OOPS! I got confused.

So when I said it sounded better with an F#M7#5add4 (don't ask me how I got to that name, I think I did a bunch of crazy BS) and you said it sounded better with an F7add4, I think we BOTH may have actually been talking about the same chord? I don't know.

I like the progression with whatever the hell chord is made up of F# - B - E - A - B - F#. It WORKS with the F#7add4 that I think you were talking about (F# - B - E - A# - B - F#) but the A sounds strange. And when I played it using an F7add4, it sounded VERY strange.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:16 pm

Toxikator wrote: I do not believe that there are musical ideas which are only valid on a certain set of strings on a certain piece of wood. There's just no way it's true. I could see where it might not work on keys, but a multisample of a guitar will have the same timbral qualities; as long as the chord is VOICED correctly (and I did) I can't imagine that the difference would be so great that the sonority would go from "great" to "this is awful".

Sorry, but you seem to have no idea about real guitars.

But let's say it's true; have you TRIED it with the F#? the F just sounds like a mistake in the context to me.

Which F#?
There are mainly two chords I've been talking about: The Dadd9add4 (which has an F# in it) and the F#7add4. Both are typical guitar voicings and sound just fine.

Listen:
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... p7add4.mp3

And even if you may not like it, show me how you can even remotely get close to anything such as that with your sampled guitar patch. Good luck with that.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:27 pm

Okay okay. But see, when I replied to you you had SAID F7add4, NOT F#7add4. There's a huge diff. In fact what I did was to take the F and raise it. the F#7add4 is basically what I WAS playing, although I preferred to lower the A# to an A. I just gave it a horrible frankenstein name for some reason

BTW I've been using a multi of a clean acoustic since I try to avoid complex strumming when any distortion is involved. so no, I don't think I can emulate that sound of yours, and I wasn't claiming I could. I don't doubt that it COULD be done, using a proper amp sim and an electric multi, but it's certainly a lot of work and I thought you were talking about acoustics (which I usually associate with the verb "strumming").

Here's MY example, using the EM (F#m7add4 as a passing) - AMadd9 - BMadd4 - E (powerchord) on an acoustic multi. Not perfect but you get the idea.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:47 pm

The page doesn't load right now. Will get it later.
And no, a proper acoustic patch won't help you to get things right either. The reason being there's no interaction between the strings, a very strong aspect in any such chords.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:14 pm

Ah, I guess that makes sense. though TBH I like the sound of the F#m7add4 on the acoustic in the progression you presented it for; the only thing I don't like about your version (at least as near as I could mock it up from your instructions) is the A#.

Assuming the progression here is a I-IV-V-I with a passing ii chord between the I and IV, the F#m7add4 seems perfectly natural.

I can't even tell what we're disagreeing about anymore.

chardin · Post by **chardin** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:59 am

Sascha Franck wrote:Listen:
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/chordprog ... p7add4.mp3

Nice. The tremelo bar really adds a lot. What is the drone sound that starts around 0:14?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:03 am

chardin wrote: Nice.

Thanks.

The tremelo bar really adds a lot.

Defenitely. I love whammy bars! With an echo following you're getting nice modulations without actually using any modulation.

What is the drone sound that starts around 0:14?

A pretty much overdriven B4 II from NI. They greatly improved the tube drive in there, it's now really gritty, yet very harmonic.

chardin · Post by **chardin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:43 am

This is completely off topic, so please forgive me.

Sascha Franck, I listened to your Fsharp7add4.mp3 again and I really like the sound. Can you please post the guitar fingering for that chord? TAB or whatever is easiest for you.

BosseJo · Post by **BosseJo** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:45 am

chardin wrote:This is completely off topic, so please forgive me.

Sascha Franck, I listened to your Fsharp7add4.mp3 again and I really like the sound. Can you please post the guitar fingering for that chord? TAB or whatever is easiest for you.

Judging from the sound of the file it should be from the lowest to highest:

F# 6th string, second fret
C#
F#
A# (Bb)
B open
E open string

And then play this chord:

B
F#
B
D#
E open string

Listen to the Rush album Hemispheres (first song I think) and you will here this little "progression". And also a lot of other of these kind of chords. Alex Lifeson is a real master of these "lush" chords.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:14 am

BosseJo wrote: Judging from the sound of the file it should be from the lowest to highest:

F# 6th string, second fret
C#
F#
A# (Bb)
B open
E open string

Exactly.
The two other chords are just moving the same shape up to A and B.
It's really nothing else but your standard E-Barré form with the E1 and B2 strings ringing open.
Also sounds good on F, C and sometimes D.
I love the guitar for such sounds and I hate the guitar for not being able to transpose them, unless you fool around with a capodaster.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:50 pm

BosseJo wrote:
chardin wrote:This is completely off topic, so please forgive me.

Sascha Franck, I listened to your Fsharp7add4.mp3 again and I really like the sound. Can you please post the guitar fingering for that chord? TAB or whatever is easiest for you.
Judging from the sound of the file it should be from the lowest to highest:

F# 6th string, second fret
C#
F#
A# (Bb)
B open
E open string

And then play this chord:

B
F#
B
D#
E open string

I'm impressed. Do you have perfect pitch?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:10 pm

Toxikator wrote: I'm impressed. Do you have perfect pitch?

Even if I wouldn't happen to know, but there's no perfect pitch required to find out. A good relative pitch will do and if you are a guitar player, you just know the sound of these chords.

Toxikator · Post by **Toxikator** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:33 pm

I guess it was just him saying "judging from the sound", I imagined him listening to it and going "...F#...C#, another F#...."

Avoid, just avoid