KVR Audio

Debutante · Post by **Debutante** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:07 pm

I normally don't record at all and never have, but I would like to try once just for the hell of it, and I was wondering how reliable a "pick-up???" is on a guitar. I've always just called it a pick-up; it's one of those little flat Dentyne-shaped mic's you stick on the body of a guitar... any good for recording or full of pitfalls?

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:51 pm

Especially for classical guitar, no pickup is going to sound realistic. For classical I prefer a SDC placed around the 12th fret, aiming to where the neck meets the body, and about 2-3 feet from the guitar. A good sounding room is also crutial, as it is as much a part of the sound as the guitar itself.

Debutante · Post by **Debutante** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:44 am

All input helps, thank you! I really shouldn't even bother as I'm having more than enough trouble as is without recording, but curious all the same....

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:19 am

I just got a new Ramirez! Its beautiful guitar. I record it with a single Rode NT1 about 12 inches away from the tone hole (but usually move around to get the best sound). Then I use a convo IR from a nice big concert hall.

Here is the A sec from Tarrega's Gran Vals (not played very well mind you... I have to start practicing again, lol):

http://download.yousendit.com/A39DE93978C80B4D

Oh, and this was just using a regular shite room reverb patch. When I use the better reverb it sounds far more professional imo. Dont have a rec of that though right at the moment.

TB

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:50 pm

Stay away from the sound hole, the result of micing there is massive amounts of unwanted low end, and a very unnatural sound. You want to capture the sound of the guitar in the room for classical, so don't mic too close. 18" IMHO is about as close as you want to be.

A second room mic several feet away (at least 3x the distance of the close mic from the guitar) can yield (when blended properly) a very nice result.

In addition, the natural reverb of the room will sound vastly superior to any plugin or hardware reverb.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:55 pm

where02190 wrote:Stay away from the sound hole, the result of micing there is massive amounts of unwanted low end, and a very unnatural sound. You want to capture the sound of the guitar in the room for classical, so don't mic too close. 18" IMHO is about as close as you want to be.

A second room mic several feet away (at least 3x the distance of the close mic from the guitar) can yield (when blended properly) a very nice result.

In addition, the natural reverb of the room will sound vastly superior to any plugin or hardware reverb.

Ahhh, but you are making one fatal assumption my friend - my room does NOT have a desirable acoustic! As Im working in less than ideal circumstances, I have no choice other than to compromise.

Usually my basic starting point is 12 inches, 12th fret. But I found in this room that it tends to result in a tone which is a little too mellow. Oddly Im getting better results inbetween the tone hole and bridge.

But as always, I tend to use starting points as just that, and let my ears make the decisions from then on. I managed a couple of recordings that sounded acceptable to my ears, so cant complain.
TB

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:31 am

Room sound isn't going to change by moving the mic, only by changing the room acoustics. In addition, it's not going to change the proximity boominess from micing near the sound hole.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:35 am

where02190 wrote:Room sound isn't going to change by moving the mic, only by changing the room acoustics. In addition, it's not going to change the proximity boominess from micing near the sound hole.

Hmmm, Id beg to differ on that one my good friend! Close mic'ing is ofcourse going to cut down on room ambience. It wont get rid of it, admittedly. But its the we can do with what we have.

Proximity effect hasnt been a problem when making sure that mic distance is atleast 12 inches. Though I agree that playing over the tone hole can create low end issues.

TB

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:40 am

1. I'm not your good friend.

2. Where the mic is doesn't change the room's acoustic properties.

3. Micing the sound hole captures the GUITAR'S proximity effect.

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:53 am

where02190 wrote: 2. Where the mic is doesn't change the room's acoustic properties.

Uh, no - but placing the microphone nearer the source means the signal is louder relative to the room ambience. If the mic is significantly closer to the guitar than the hall radius, your room acoustics play less and less role, as the direct signal is so much louder than the reflected sound. Also, where the mic is in the room certainly changes the character of the ambience on your recording, so although the room's acoustic properties don't change, the sound you're capturing does. Saying that the room acoustics don't change is like saying that the guitar is the same no matter who plays it, which is true but kind of meaningless.

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:19 pm

However, as previously stated, none of that changes the room acoustics. That requires physical changes to the room itself.

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:52 pm

Did anyone say it did?

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:52 pm

Well this got rather silly didnt it.

Tell you what, I shall record using the principles that I was taught. You record using the principles that you were taught.

We'll agree that no microphone can change the sound of the room, but positioning of the mic within the room and in relation to the sound source can have a HUGE impact of the rooms level and sound on a record (which ultimate is the only thing that matters).

And you're absolutely right, you are not my good friend! Far to anal retentive...

TB

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:41 pm

tee boy wrote:
And you're absolutely right, you are not my good friend! Far to anal retentive...

TB

there are two "o"s in too in that context...

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:02 pm

I had noo idea it was contagious!

TB

Recording Classical Guitar @ Home