KVR Audio

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:37 pm

Hi
I'm planning to buy a tube preamp to give some warmth and dirt to my synths. But i already have a Art tube compressor, and i find the tube sound rather smooth and not that obvious.
Is it different with a preamp ?
Can i reach a dirtier sound (nearly overdirve) with a preamp ?
Which one would you recomand for such a task ?
Would Art Tube MP be good ?
thanks

Angst Queen · Post by **Angst Queen** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:14 am

Why don't you just use distortion/overdrive themselves if you want grit? I like running mine through my guitar pedals to get weirder sounds.

Deric · Post by **Deric** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:30 am

Or try changing out the tubes for different ones... get yourself a selection of decent pre-amp tubes including a couple of different high gain items like 12AX7s (which come in different gain values themselves - depending mainly on make) for instance.

Just check out what's currently installed in your unit first, and ask the manufacturer if there's any you shouldn't use...

You should be amazed by how different you're likely to get it to sound...

Get yourself a reasonable tube pre-amp too and with a selection of different tube types it should be like having a whole bunch of different pre-amps to choose from...

Have fun

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:25 am

Thanks for the suggestions.
I have several distortion efx (on digital multi efx), and use it (mainly on drums), but i am looking for something more obvious than my tube comp AND more subtle than my distortion efx. Distortion efx is too "static", it doesn't really adapt itself to the dynamic level of theinput material (hard to explain).
I'm willing for something that can very subtle at low volume, but getting distorting if the sound increases. Does that make sense ?

BTW, i have read that tubes were doing natural limiting, is that right?

I have also read that the tube sound on a preamp were more audible if the input was very loud, is it correct ?

Is tube pedal and tube preamp a totally different thing ? I mean : will i reach a similar sound by feeding a tube comp at high volume than with a pedal tube efx ?

s_sibs · Post by **s_sibs** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:41 pm

Be sure you understand the difference between tube sound and distortion. A good tube preamp will not give you that "toob" sound that alot of manufactures are pushing you "need" in today's digital recording. I have and Avalon 737 preamp. It's very clean sounding for a tube preamp. I have a solid state UA 2108 that has alot more "character" than the Avalon.

It seems to me you're looking for something that a quality tube preamp may not give you. Being a guitar player myself, you can try the typical "guitar amp" thing by cranking the gain on the preamp and lowering the output level of the preamp and you could get what you're looking for. But if your really looking for something "dirtier" then try running you synth through a guitar distortion pedal like an Ibenez Tube Screamer with a real low gain setting. I've done this and it gives that not-clean-but-not-fuzz sound.

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:25 pm

The Art is not a tube preamp, it's a preamp with a tube in it. If you're planning on getting a real tube pre (IOW one that is all tube circuitry) then you'll hear a very different sound.

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:48 pm

Yes,
Thanks all for your replies
In fact, i was after buying a cheap but efficient preamp for mic, and the Art tube mp seemed to be a nice solution (both cheap and quality). And it gave me the idea to use it also on some bass synths sounds.
Now things seem clearer
I think i'm gonna buy the Art tube mp (39$ only), it will suit my vocal needs, andthen i will experiment driving the input rather high and lowering the output, and then also try with my multiefx's distortion with low gain.
(Well, as you can see, all wasn't very clear in y head, just willing to experiment for some sounds with more beef without being the sonic mayhem)
cheers

jkotz · Post by **jkotz** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:29 pm

Another important thing to look for is separate gain and output levels. This will allow you to push the gain into distortion while attenuating the output so as not to clip the signal at the next stage in the chain (often the converters). It amazes me how many pres leave this feature out.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:44 pm

you wont get proper tube distortion with just one tube..no matter how many processors use just one tube, it's not happening...you need at least two tubes for the true tube distortion.

where02190 · Post by **where02190** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:37 pm

All the $39 ART "tube" pre is going to give you is shitty distortion if you try to overdrive it, as you are overdriving solid state electronics for the most part. It's not a "tube preamp" it's a cheap SS pre with a tube stuck in it for marketing purposes. Save your money.

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:50 pm

where02190 wrote:The Art is not a tube preamp, it's a preamp with a tube in it. If you're planning on getting a real tube pre (IOW one that is all tube circuitry) then you'll hear a very different sound.

...and even with an all-tube signal path with transformers you're likely to only get a super clean articulate sound. We can blame whole tube/warmth/fart/crap sound on modern marketing by Art, behringer and friends.

up to until mid-eighties tube design was (and still is outside the china-cheapo scene) striving for clean amplification with as little distortion as possible.

an all-tube distorting pre-amp (a design which is quite rare) is going to look a whole lot more like a stomp box.

I could build one for custom specs... for a fee.

clean or dirty.

honestly, with the behringer and art you could in some cases remove the tube (that's only there because gullible folk think it should be), leave the fancy looking back light and it would still sound the same. ie shite.

Chuck E. Jesus · Post by **Chuck E. Jesus** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:39 pm

i have an old Aphex Tubessence mic pre, and when i run a synth>direct box>Aphex, i get a pleasant OD sound, not claiming it's the best pre, but it sounds ok....some of the best OD soun i've gotten is from an old Yamaha mixer from a video studio, the channel OD really did the "sampler warm up trick" for me....

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:51 pm

Chuck E. Jesus wrote:i have an old Aphex Tubessence mic pre, and when i run a synth>direct box>Aphex, i get a pleasant OD sound, not claiming it's the best pre, but it sounds ok....some of the best OD soun i've gotten is from an old Yamaha mixer from a video studio, the channel OD really did the "sampler warm up trick" for me....

well so much for one

PBR that is

Chuck E. Jesus · Post by **Chuck E. Jesus** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:21 pm

Hink wrote:
Chuck E. Jesus wrote:i have an old Aphex Tubessence mic pre, and when i run a synth>direct box>Aphex, i get a pleasant OD sound, not claiming it's the best pre, but it sounds ok....some of the best OD soun i've gotten is from an old Yamaha mixer from a video studio, the channel OD really did the "sampler warm up trick" for me....
well so much for one

PBR that is

not sure what you mean....

but i'm already back home

GreyLion · Post by **GreyLion** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:07 pm

You might want to check out the Digitech Bad Monkey pedal. I've never run mine through a synth, but it does that great smooth overdrive thing, and is wonderfully responsive to dynamics with the guitar, so might be just what you need.

And it's really cheap, so you won't lose much if it doesn't work out for you.

tube preamp : making it hot